What player on loan/DR didn't play tonight? I doubt Josh Jordan Roberts would've changed things.

I'm not talking ability. I'm talking attitude and desire - something shown by virtually none of the 17 picked against Cas. I'd rather watch a bunch of kids get tonked but at least have a bash than watch players who on paper are supposedly far superior players get tonked because they can't be d. We saw last year how much of a difference playing the same team week in week out did. Apparently a large number of our squad think its OK to play like that regularly.

Never mind ability or attitude, we had no one else to pick in reality.

FFS. That's the same garbage spouted all last year. So there are NO U19 players fit or recallable loanees/dual reg players? If that's the case then BM and co need shooting anyway.

If Bradford can attract Toovey & KR Sheens im more than sure we'll have enough candidates apply.
The main issue is it needs doing & doing asap before another lost season & we find ourselves saying the same things again in 2018.

The question? Was who!

Name the 17 you'd have selected tonight with the absentees?

I love the way Printer has subtly (?) changed from "give BMD a chance", "injuries", "training ground", "short close season" blah blah, to "Let's keep him, we couldn't get anyone else"

Printer, I'm not arguing with the 17 picked vs Cas. I am saying that NOW is the time to act. Carrying on with the same experienced players who continue to fail to perform week after week with seemingly no negative personal consequences is what was done for most of last season. And it didn't work. The way some of them are playing you'd think they are already in comfortable retirement.

Assuming BM stays, some of these guys need dropping, and I'd quite happily go with whoever people think are most ready in the U19s. BM himself said he'd expect better effort than the second half from a full U19s team.

Its not about winning the next game. IMO its about time a number of our squad got the message that last year was terrible, that they personally have some responsibility for that, and that absolutely dreadful performances will not be tolerated.

I fully expect none of this to happen. A few minor tweaks aside I think McDermott will go with the same old faces, and we'll hear the same mantra about working hard and putting things right. Which is why I think he needs to move on, and should have left under his own steam at the end of last year.

must be related to brian, how can you keep backing him otherwise

Given the success McDermott has achieved in the past, his stock has, up to this, point been in credit. I think Printer has argued that consistently and the majority of fans would have agreed with him. He also makes a reasonable point about available options and some of the blame for where we now find ourselves must be shouldered by GH. However, I'm fairly certain that GH did not leave Mullally on the bench until the game was well and truly gone. I would also venture that GH didn't relocate McGuire in the defensive line in a game where our defence was always going to be under pressure. In fact, I am pretty sure that GH is not responsible for the defensive formation, the tackling technique and the general organisation of the team.

There have always been some question marks over BM's coaching and his teams have often been inconsistent. In fact, we have witnessed similar performances in the last, even when Sinfield and Peacock were still here.

What to do now and who to turn to? The options are few and far between. The cheque book needs to come out and soon. Forget buying players, get a decent coach.

peter smith sums it up

They (cas) have size in the pack, creativity in the halves – even with a hooker playing there – and explosive finishing power out wide. They are well-organised, confident and play a glorious brand of attacking rugby league

the opposite of leeds

printer isn't right at all. the bulls fund toovey didn't they?. there are plenty of quality coaches available in Australia.

Still some are missing the point . Mac is outcoached every week , we have no structure in attack or defence and he does not improve players . Yes our recruitment is poor and our Academy system seems to have fallen apart but some of that can also be put on the coach .

BM hasn't always been "outcoached every week" - certainly not in finals. I'd say its more a case of overseeing an ever poorer squad highlighting his deficiencies, which were probably always there but didn't matter when we had the cattle.

Its hugely unfair on him to say that he wasn't a great coach for the club - our winning record not to mention plaudits from the likes of Sinfield suggest otherwise.

However, the way we are going BM is in all likelihood going to end up sacked, with his reputation at Leeds in tatters. That's an awful way for him to leave, but TBH if he carries on with another year like last year and ends up being forced out, then even the reputation hit will be partly his fault.