I'm a bit mixed about the game really. I never expected Leeds would win, and in the opening quarter we looked decent. However we were taken apart in the next part of the game and looked like men against boys. Defending as poorly as we did in 2018 and 2016. The performance seemed to only confirm what we have been saying on here over the winter. Not enough strength in the middle

On the upside though I think we played the team who will be right at the top of the table all things being equal. Also, more established Leeds teams have gone to Warrington and been more soundly beaten. I've the season I expect we'll get better. I think only the most optimistic fan would think we would be right at the top of the league. We'll see how they get on over the next month or so

Saints can go wide off the charges of Walmsley and Thompson creating quick rucks for Roby to scoot or to spread the play. We've got Cuthbo, Singo, Donaldson and Ferres. Our best forward last year Hall and this year it will be Hurrell.

Other than Ward none of our forwards will break a tackle all season.

I went to Hunslet today to watch a very young Leeds team lose out 34-28. Trout had a good strong game, Muizz and Holroyd we're both strong and run far harder than any of our forwards at Warrington.

The stats disagree with you.

According to the Leeds web site Singleton was on for just 3 minutes longer than Donaldson (35/33) and in those extra 3 minutes Singleton made 2 more carries and 19 more metres than Donaldson. Both made 28 tackles and both made one tackle bust each and no missed tackles. So Singleton averaged 6.5m per carry and Donaldson 5m per carry. Both made either a tackle or a carry every minute they were on except for one minute each (perhaps when they ran on) so both were equally busy with Single marginally more effective.

As I said Singleton on paper was marginally better than Donaldson something that you chose to overlook or perhaps failed to observe..

In the game the other night Saints regularly went wide even in their own red zone and not always on the back of forward drives a point noted by the TV pundits. Their tactic for this match was to clear the fast line speed of the big Wigan pack....and it worked.

So they don’t disagree with me then. For someone who constantly goes on about stats, you really need to understand them better, you seem to struggle with them, and only pick out certain ones.

So again I will say, Singleton had more minutes, which of course you have already stated, and somehow point to this fact of 2 more carries, yet believe Donaldson wouldn’t have increased his own and his number of tackles in that time. Of course even then it overlooks the fact that one was playing prop, a role for high carries, and one wasn’t playing prop.

With respect to Hunslet though I'm confident their pack don't stack up to Cooper, Hill, Murdoch-Masila etc.

Yes and there is a duty of care for the young players too. Having said that, having one of those three in particular play first team periodically through this season could be beneficial. Realistically that probably happens in the event of injuries, but these boys need an opportunity to see how far off they are.

I went to the toilet on Saturday at half time, was about 20 metres and took me about 45 seconds to get there. Which means I made more metres than Singo and Donaldson will make all season in much less time. How's that for stats?????

Both of them are triers, both give 100% but if I played for Leeds I would give my all too but it doesn't mean I should be in the team.

we know Marty, and know your view, and yes it highlights a problem, but no alternative to improve it currently.

What it doesn’t highlight in terms of one of the players though, and I am sure you would accept, one of the players was brought on to shore up a defensive problem and did the job. One was brought on specifically for the issue you are highlighting, and failed in that regard.

Doesn't really matter what the stats say the Pack overall were well beaten.
Ward was the only one who looked like having the quality we need with Hurrell being over used coming out of our end.
Merrin looked like a BR trying to gain match fitness but being wasted at Prop.
The forwards we have available are definitely Quantity over Quality and will cost us this year.
Hopefully Furner starts integrating the younger lads into the Team asap.

Agree the young lads need some game time but from a developmental POV not sure how much they gain from playing in that kind of game. We were well beaten by a side who have a coach in place big players all over the pitch and have been building even before that coach arrived.

I think as the season goes in the young lads will get some games and be phased in, I just worry we don’t pin all the hopes ok them as it isn’t fair to expect an 18/19/20 year old or group of them to step into a beaten pack and suddenly turn it around.

This has always been a rebuild and it will take 2-4 years. Everybody talks about getting two big meter making props and a wrecking ball back rower. I agree we need those but where or who do people think we should have signed who we didn’t? Those players were not available this off season, if they were I think we would have signed them.

Next year we have the following players off contract (I think):
Walters
Parcell
Ormondroyd
Mullally
JJB
Ferres
Donaldson
Dwyer

Out of those I would only retain Dwyer.

We should also shed the following:

Ablett
Cuthbertson
Lilley
Peteru
Sutcliffe

That gives you cap to get 2 big props and a gain line breaking back rower, probably a decent winger as well.

I'd agree with pretty much all of that. If we lose only those out of contract at the end of this season, minus Dwyer who we will most likely keep until Johnson is ready, that will free up £450-500k of cap. Plenty for three very good players with the other spots being taken by the kids who will be one year more matured with hopefully a few games under their belts.

I'd be happy to see the others you mentioned leave too, but don't see how it can be done unless they themselves want to go.

I can see why a comparison is raised with us (Wire) last season, new coach, new players, new style etc. The difference is though in the season before we had any number of decent players underperforming under TS (for whatever reason). When you look at all the class and experience you have lost over the last few seasons a period of adjustment is inevitable. Don’t think it will be too long before you see improvement though.