How many times have we read on here... "Cross is sh[ii[/it!". He looked pretty good at Wigan to me.

Likewise Burgess. "He'll be in the Bunnies reserves." Seems to be holding his own with the big boys from where I'm sitting.

Any chance that's because they're being properly coached?

Ian Kirke is 6' 5" tall and 17 and a half stone. That is something that you cannot teach. Being a prop forward is something that you CAN teach. You do not need natural God given ability to be a Rugby League Prop Forward. That particular position, especially the "hard yard" type of prop over an "offloader", can be entirely coached into somebody if a) they're willing to learn and b) they have the right coach/mentor.

Delaney is fearless, and pretty fast for someone of his size. That again, is something that you cannot coach. We should be channelling his fearlessness & speed into making him a better player. Not just getting the chequebook out and signing somebody else.

The squad needs improving. I'm not saying it doesn't. We need to trim the deadwood, get rid of the past their best players, and develop the rest. Delaney/Kirke etc may not be the best players in the world, but they're certainly not "passed their best".

They need PROPERLY coaching. By a proper coach. Not just replacing, because I guarantee, under a poor coach, whoever the replacement is will turn out "sh[ii[/it" as well.

The only thing that I can think of as to why we are not making any announcements is that the players we are getting are under-contract for next season and if thats the case, nothing can be announced till after 1st Sept.

Does that also apply to players from the NRL? I'm thinking of the Buderus player exchange.

I disagree on 3 counts.

1) Cross was poor for Wigan. About as poor as he was for us.

2) John Lang must be some coach to have turned Burgess into a good NRL prop in a matter of weeks. Either that or it's not coaching that was the issue with Burgess.

3) You cannot learn to have fire in your belly. Kirke has always lacked that. Give me a 5'10" wrecking ball over someone like Kirke any day.

It is about getting value for money - if you really believe their aren't better players out there for the money than some I have mentioned you are even more nieve than I thought.

The squad make up is the job of the CEO - the coaches job is to make the best of what he has available - Leeds have the 5/6th best squad in the league not a shock that is where they are going to finish - this isn't a coaching issue this a player/squad issue.

How long did it take you to write this?

Kirke is the same player he was under Smith and McClennan - this is a player not a coaching issue

Burgess has been at Souths a few weeks - again this is a player attitude issue - he knew he was off at the end of the season and grew a bit too big for his boots

I say it again this squad was no better under McClennan in 2010 than it is now - it could be argued that McDermott has done a better job given the quality erosion he has suffered.

As the saying goes you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear

Someone who speaks sense.

Looking at the performances of Bradford this year I guess the McDermott 'haters' would pin there situation on the lack of playing quality/depth compared to the competition and not that Mick potter should shoulder any of that? I recall someone on here championing potter for Leeds as he was the man to see a successful transition blooding younger players like the crop saints have, or again maybe you can only do so much with limited resources.

As I said ages ago Leeds squad is 5th best in the comp not really a surprise where they are. I'd like to know which of the teams above them these fans think Leeds have a better squad than?

IMO Luke burgess was in good form and was one of our better players before he was dropped, i feel that mc should have let him play out his contract and go to souths next season. I don't know where people get it from that hes gone over to souths and now because hes had a few good games, he must have had a bad attitude at leeds, he was playing well for us before he was dropped.

I agree...McDermott [iseems[/i to let personal relationships interfere with best team selection for the enhanced chance of success.

McShane in particular seems to have suffered his wrath.

Quote: nantwichexile "I agree...McDermott [iseems[/i to let personal relationships interfere with best team selection for the enhanced chance of success. McShane in particular seems to have suffered his wrath.'" Maybe it's to do with attitude, this article about Peacock has some pertinent (IMV) comments as to the treatment meted out by the coach to certain players. www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... _1_3697637 I would say though re the above that roughly the same group of players had won 3 Grand Finals so hard to see how bad the behaviour & culture was.

Quote: nantwichexile "I agree...McDermott [iseems[/i to let personal relationships interfere with best team selection for the enhanced chance of success. McShane in particular seems to have suffered his wrath.'" Maybe it's to do with attitude, this article about Peacock has some pertinent (IMV) comments as to the treatment meted out by the coach to certain players. www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... _1_3697637 I would say though re the above that roughly the same group of players had won 3 Grand Finals so hard to see how bad the behaviour & culture was.

Very true.

It's notable that this isn't the first time a senior Leeds player has made such comments (Sinny previously) and we also had very clear negative comments about Burgess' attitude by GH when Burgess was released...of course somehow it's all the coaches fault that we lost a top young prop.

If a players attitude isn't right he shouldn't be in the team even if he does the business on a match day - it's a team sport and 17 committed players working as a unit will more often than not beat a team of individuals.

At the end of the day McDermott is the boss and if players don't respect his decisions they should suffer his wrath (I'm sure Brian was taught exactly that in his days in the Marines) - what else can he do run the team as a democracy?

And FWIW I'm not remotely convinced that McDermott is the best man for the job but we're talking about a couple of allegedly unhappy junior players (McShane - although he has actually come out and said he's happy in last weeks League express - and Burgess) it's hardly a Brain Clough-Leeds United type situation