Wayne McDonald was worth it for that try alone against St Helens, also didn't McDonald sign in 2002 and I don't remember him playing much in 2004/5.

Made 26 appearances in 2004, 14 of those were starts which is more than Barrie McDermott made (11).

Printer- Tony Smith got plenty of criricism for selections etc at the time on here especially towards the end of his tenure and at no point did anyone think he was "Amazing" because of the Ali/Senior/Bai combo his work here achieved much more than that but at the same time had it's faults.
As for what Wire fans think he's turned them into trophy winers and got them to GF's so maybe some would do well to remember that when assessing his "overall" achievements and work there.
Every Coach ,and player gets appraised on performnces at the time of that discussion which happens on here on a regular basis do they always get it right then NO but at the same time it's not always wrong either.
Smith achieved a lot more good than bad during his tenure as did Mclennon imo but were still criticised and praised where deserved the same can also be said for present Incumbant and squad.

You're right, he has won CC's and reached GF's at Wire so deserves the credit.
Likewise McDermott for Leeds has won GF's and reached CC's and won a WCC yet they've clearly been some who downplay this (players won them, success due to previous management regimes), just about anything apart from say McDermott's done well.

The thing is at times I'm not McDermott's biggest fan despite what some might think. I think he has done ok though but I too don't care some of his decisions or style of play at times.

However I was just pointing out in my previous post that issues with McDermott happened under Smith too but you wouldn't know it the way some round on one and praise the other. Like you said, Smith got his criticism when here too (many seemed happy that he was leaving) but now admire him when at another club. A similar thing happens at times when players leave or are out of the team. BJB when in the team was viewed as the weaker link of the backs, now it's unfair he's not picked. It was wrong not to pick McShane but when he did people said he wasn't good enough. Clarkson and Achurch always look better in some peoples eyes when they are not selected.

What had Huddersfield, Leeds and Warrington won of late before Tony Smith took control at those three perennial under-achievers? What did Brian McDermott achieve in London before he took control of a set of Champion players at Leeds? __________ According to Opta Peacock made 54 tackles with 2 missed - www.superleague.co.uk/report/9915

What had Huddersfield, Leeds and Warrington won of late before Tony Smith took control at those three perennial under-achievers? What did Brian McDermott achieve in London before he took control of a set of Champion players at Leeds? __________ According to Opta Peacock made 54 tackles with 2 missed - www.superleague.co.uk/report/9915

What did he do at Huddersfield exactly, yo-yo from Super League back up again, Wow.

Some could look at his timing, he came to Leeds when the core group of Academy lads had already been introduced to the first team, plus got the luxury of big signings like Peacock, Webb, Ali, Ellis. Signings that aren't do-able today due to the differences in SC with the NRL. He moved onto Wire who were likewise making the big signings, noticeable how the big signings have dried up over there in the last 2 off-seasons and now they're being labelled impotent in attack and easily repelled.




Not much but I'm fairly certain neither would Smith without big signings. Maybe McDermott would've gained promotion back to SL like Smith did at Hudds except he never got them relegated to find out. Will fully expect Smith to be sniffing around the Salford job should Noble not cut it with the Doctor.

To be fair, Smith had already had us in two Grand Finals a challenge cup final and a WCC final before Peacock and Webb had arrived.

As for these signings not happening any more due to SC. For Webb seen Bowen, for Ellis see Bateman or Hansen. Signings are very much still there if clubs take that option.

Don't forget Smith still won CHallenge cups at Wire, and had them in two GF. Luck plays a part many times, and just like had Saints not suffered injuries against us the other year, Wire would have won last year year without injuries striking them bad in the game. You seem to over look this, but I suppose it doesn't suit the agenda.

When McDermott comes close to anything with his own team, and FWIW I think this year could be called his own, then you may start to have a relevant point.

i agree with everything except the last point. smith had powells team, bluey had smiths team and BM had blueys team.
they were all lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time. thats life sometimes

Top is Alker but Houghton gets close semi regularly. He's a machine.

[code+------+-------+------------------+---------+------+------------+------------+------+
| year | round | name | tackles | home | home_score | away_score | away |
+------+-------+------------------+---------+------+------------+------------+------+
| 2010 | 12 | Malcolm Alker | 69 | CAS | 30 | 12 | SAL |
| 2012 | 16 | Chad Randall | 67 | WAK | 24 | 6 | LON |
| 2012 | 14 | Danny Houghton | 66 | LON | 12 | 14 | HFC |
| 2011 | 12 | Ian Henderson | 63 | CAT | 8 | 8 | BRA |
| 2011 | 13 | Danny Houghton | 63 | HFC | 24 | 24 | STH |
| 2011 | 3 | Craig Fitzgibbon | 62 | HUD | 20 | 10 | HFC |
| 2013 | 7 | Danny Houghton | 61 | HUD | 24 | 10 | HFC |
+------+-------+------------------+---------+------+------------+------------+------+[/code

He did enough to attract the attention of arguably the biggest under-achievers of the previous thirty years and turned the club into winners again. Few clubs can become successful without being led by a quality coach. Those that have followed at Headingley still owe a large debt to the coach that transformed the potential into achievement.



They can't both be right - even though Opta is usually credited as being the source for the Sky stats.

The same Sky stats that last week during the Fulltime show had Watkins scoring three tries at Hull KR.

Yes that is true he did attract the attention of the Leeds club........so did McDermott obviously if he was hired too.

Bowen whilst good over in NRL has come over here as he's about to turn 32. Webb started here only aged 26 with his best still ahead. Bateman isn't yet 21 and doesn't even have 50 SL games under his belt and is still a 'potential' whereas Ellis was 24 his first year at Leeds and had already played for GB a few times. Hansen, a good SL player but I don't think many would've been fussed if we signed him (especially considering he wasn't OOC so it cost Salford a bit to get him). Neither of those comparisons are very good IMO and of course they were no comparisons available to make for Peacock or Ali.



So I overlook injuries to other teams? Note Leeds' injuries last year, yet I know you'll say they were the fault of the coach. Whereas Wire and Saints are down to bad luck......what was that about an agenda?



Well he won the 2012 GF with 10 of the 17 different to the team who won under McLennen. And only 4 of that 17 played in the same positions (Hall, Peacock, Leuluai, JJB). Sinfield, McGuire and Burrow have altered positions, Kirke was used in the 2nd row back then and Bailey started at Loose Forward compared to sub prop Ablett did shift to centre but granted he'd done that in 2008 GF.

Only 3 players are out and out the same from the Smith's final season, Leuluai, Peacock and JJB, others might still be here but are used differently or were only just breaking in like Ablett and Hall. So the team has seen a transition but it's just not solely in changing faces.

The transition back to that of being under achievers again is progressing well under this coach.

Watch how the starting hooker will be back in the halves next week if Sinfield is absent.

Indeed, McDermott has now gone nearly 17 months since we last won silverware. Still got a bit to go until he reaches the 32 month gap Smith endured from WCC '05 to GF '07.

Is this one of usual threads where you move the goalposts every time there is a counter argument?

You made the point about the reason we would not see these players was because of the salary cap and finances. Well both Bateman and Hansen have being signed for similar transfer fees to Ellis, and both on similar wages





Please, come on, your not seriously suggesting the scenarios were the same? You are better than that. One was injuries of his own influence, and continued to play injured. The others were injuries in the one game that mattered, much different to the point you are trying to make.