FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > Finances |
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| Cash at bank of almost half a mil. Wonder how much that figure would have been without a trip to Wembley to boost the coffers?
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| Cash decreased by £1.5m over the year, mostly due to about a £3m increase in "amounts owed to group undertakings", which I guess (but have no idea really, I'm not an accountant) is shifting money between the holding company and other subsidiaries.
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International Board Member | 28186 | No Team Selected |
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Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
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| Well that's an interesting one.
I never realised that the ultimate parent company of the whole shebang was actually Caddick Construction Ltd. Means that any corporation tax losses in Caddick can be used to offset tax liabilities in Leeds CF&AC and Leeds Rugby Limited, and vice versa.
So if the rugby side made a loss one year, it could be used to save Caddick Construction a few quid it would otherwise be paying over to the tax man and it can then potentially pay a larger dividend to the trust that controls it.
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International Chairman | 18060 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote: yammer "Cash decreased by £1.5m over the year, mostly due to about a £3m increase in "amounts owed to group undertakings", which I guess (but have no idea really, I'm not an accountant) is shifting money between the holding company and other subsidiaries.'"
Surely that should be the opposite? If the amounts owing to group companies increased then it would suggest the parent company was injecting cash in?
The decrease in cash could be due to the spend on the pitch? Cash generation - profits plus non cash items plus timing if the accounts run Jan to Dec should give more cash than is showing as residual.
Still an excellent performance for a sporting club - interesting to compare with the other large sporting club in the city - I don't mean Hunslet!!
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Player Coach | 5526 | |
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International Board Member | 28186 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Surely that should be the opposite? If the amounts owing to group companies increased then it would suggest the parent company was injecting cash in?
The decrease in cash could be due to the spend on the pitch? Cash generation - profits plus non cash items plus timing if the accounts run Jan to Dec should give more cash than is showing as residual'"
The £3m increase is in "amounts owed by group undertakings" - specifically the parent company Leeds Rugby Limited.
So at some point between October 2013 and October 2014, Leeds CF&AC has loaned Leeds Rugby Limited £3m taking the total owed by group undertakings out to £4.6m. Even so, the cash balance over the year has only gone down by £1.5m.
Leeds CF&AC have paid £35k to Caddick Group in order to use some of the ultimate parent company's losses to offset its own tax liabilities. All not well in Mr Caddick's construction empire?
When you look at the August 2014 accounts for Leeds Rugby Limited, the water muddies slightly further.
At August 2013, LRL owed the Caddick Group £1.4m. By August 2014, this has swung around to the Caddick Group now owing LRL £2.4m, a £3.8m net change.
Similarly at August 2013 Leeds Rugby Union Football Club Ltd owed the parent company £2.5m. By August 2014, that had turned around to the Union operation being owed £1.3m by LRL. So there's clearly been a significant movement of money between the three companies, even if only on paper, in which the debt owed to the parent company by the Union side of the business now appears to be sitting in Caddick Group.
When you look at the final piece of the jigsaw, it becomes apparent why. The accounts for LRUFCL for the year ended 30 June 2014 make sorry reading. Turnover down by £400k. Operating expenses up by £300k giving a £555k operating loss in the year. Were it not for £145k received in interest from other group undertakings (presumably the loan to LRL) the picture would have looked much worse.
At 30 June 2014, LRUFCL had net assets of £1. Had the debts not be rejigged and shuffled around between LRL and Caddick Group, it would have been effectively insolvent. It was subsequently bought in December 2014 by Yorkshire Tykes Ltd, presumably for the £1 of net assets it had at June 2014.
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International Board Member | 14970 | No Team Selected |
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Jun 2002 | 22 years | |
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| Quote: Old Feller "A further if less detailed comparison is shown here with Saints results for the same period:
The Leeds figures are for Leeds CF&A so purely the RL club as Carnegie are separately owned now. So the only RU input is whatever Carnegie pay to use the stadium. Which I doubt is that much.
Saints figures are excellent. McManus should be lauded as a hero by Saints fans. He's secured their future long term.
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International Board Member | 28186 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote: Him "So the only RU input is whatever Carnegie pay to use the stadium. Which I doubt is that much. '"
Net £400k over the year. They pay CF&AC £540k, CF&AC pay them £140k to use their facilities (presumably that'll include use of their "half" of Kirkstall, any staff crossover time etc)
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International Board Member | 14970 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "Net £400k over the year. They pay CF&AC £540k, CF&AC pay them £140k to use their facilities (presumably that'll include use of their "half" of Kirkstall, any staff crossover time etc)'"
Cheers for that Andy, seems a decent deal for both parties to me.
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International Star | 13 | No Team Selected |
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Mar 2015 | 10 years | |
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| Caddick Group had £15m profit so it doesn't look like they're in trouble. I'd just assume it was for some sort of accounting reasons, getting more favourable banking terms, that sort of thing. Cadduck owns 76% by the way.
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Player Coach | 1814 | No Team Selected |
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Jul 2006 | 18 years | |
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Oct 2024 | Jun 2021 | LINK |
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| "The joint initiative for the redevelopment of the stadium 'The route to May 2019' is progressing satisfactorily"
Sounds interesting. Does this mean work on the north stand starting in the next couple of years?
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International Board Member | 28186 | No Team Selected |
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Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
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| Quote: bewildered ""The joint initiative for the redevelopment of the stadium 'The route to May 2019' is progressing satisfactorily"
Sounds interesting. Does this mean work on the north stand starting in the next couple of years?'"
Priorities are probably different between the two users of the North Stand.
The cricket side basically needs to come down ASAP and be replaced before it's condemned. YCCC will be wanting to get it done sooner rather than later, certainly before the 2019 Ashes.
From the rugby perspective, there's no great rush to do anything with the North Stand, given the disruption that will cause to both players and spectators. The South Stand is probably the priority from a rugby perspective, before that starts failing H&S inspections again.
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International Chairman | 503 | |
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Mar 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote: bewildered ""The joint initiative for the redevelopment of the stadium 'The route to May 2019' is progressing satisfactorily"
Sounds interesting. Does this mean work on the north stand starting in the next couple of years?'"
As I understand it, Leeds current plan is to replace the South stand before work starts on the new North stand. This is a priority as Leeds will have to re-home 5000 seat holders for a season whilst the more complex North stand work takes place.
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Player Coach | 5526 | |
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Apr 2007 | 18 years | |
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| Quote: Maverick Rhino "As I understand it, Leeds current plan is to replace the South stand before work starts on the new North stand. This is a priority as Leeds will have to re-home 5000 seat holders for a season whilst the more complex North stand work takes place.'"
The problem with that is that the council won't accept plans that increase the height of the South Stand to permit seats & a standing area like the Carnegie Stand.
I find it difficult to believe that the club won't have to relocate for at least part of the rebuilding work since the rugby operation is now year round.
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