We're conceding an average of 30 points a game since Sinfield came in, and 30 a game in the M8s. Given the quality of opposition that is terrible. The ONE thing everyone with half an RL brain knows is that defence is a lot about attitude, and our team's attitude stinks. The interesting thing to me is how come we have seen very little response since Sinfield came back, and it can only mean that either he's not getting his message across, or the team really is as bad as it looks with a bunch of players literally not bothered whether we win or lose.

I still think the club had to do something with respect to BM, and from all accounts it was his choice to not stay to the end of the season. However, I really think we should have gone all out both in terms of signings (Hastings really was wortth a punt even if he only stayed for the 8s this year) and a more experienced (better) coach for the short term as well.

Both clubs are still in SL - that is until one/both gets relegated - that's the reality

As a corporate sponsor at the Rhinos yes I can - we are not a silo and we do discuss things with other sponsors who happen to be either customer/suppliers of ours. It was also mentioned on a thread on here by another corporate sponsor who was spending 7.5k in the Carneige and the club was asked for £10k for the same package IFIRK.

The new facilities at Leeds will be amazing but they also come at a very substantial cost - especially when you only get 14 games a season. Filling those spaces would be very difficult if the quality of the entertainment was on a par with the turgid drivel that McDermott had served up during his time at the club.

As company we have corporate at Premier League football and the costs at Headingley are in line with that when you take into consideration the extra games you get in the PL.

If as business you ignore the input from your major customers - they wont be major customers for long. As a business guru I would have thought that was pretty obvious.

Why do so many managers get sacked when the supporters starting getting disgruntled - because they are the customers and they have a say. To say clubs don't make coaching decisions because of input from outside pressures in simply not true - even Wenger couldn't survive for ever.

If you want to increase prices there has to be a justification because ultimately the customers of the sponsors are those who will pay - if the sponsor can't justify it then he wont pay it and use his/hers marketing funds where he/she best gets value for money.

Do you not think major firms like Heinz, Ford, Pepsi, P&G are not constantly interacting with their customers both retailers and end users?

This is all interesting but if sponsors held the sway you claim, and based on your near decade-long campaign of doom-mongering, we would have been through a new coach almost every season. Especially in 2011 and 2012 and 2016.

I never said sponsors hold sway - all I said was they would have given GH some feedback - how he chose to use that is his business.

I would suggest it went along the lines of "We have some new corporate entertaining we want to sell you" "Well something will have to change on the pitch if you want us to spend more money" If you get enough feedback of that nature then it concentrates your mind to take action. This is not rocket science especially to a business guru such as yourself

For me we lost the game off poor defencive mistakes and our kicking game being non-existant. Hull KR's kicked put our back 3 under some real pressure and allowed there players to challenge for the ball either getting a repeat set or with leeds starting with the ball on our own line. Our last tackle option is either sutcliffes kick it and hope (only kick he seems to do) or we get tackled before getting a kick away. This let hull KR start there sets 30/40m up field. Real lack of last tackle composure and ability to end sets well.

As a member in the legend suite, I have a table of 4 and have been quoted £10k plus vat to renew and sit in the new premier suite. The question is should I buy these tickets here or but them at Elland road. It's all down to what clients want to see, and it's hard at the moment to get 3 clients to come and watch the games. Some right rubbishy has been served up this year and McDermott has to take the blame along with GH. You cannot replace quality with lower class players and expect the same success. If you look at the team, it barely changed last year to this year in the forwards but the difference is they were all a year older, we seem to be the only club who offers 2/3 year contracts to players in their 30's McDermott trusted the old players he liked work horses and that is why this year we have struggled the work horses have all suffered long term injuries and the older you are it takes longer to recover. We are left with a team that is broken and it needs a desperate amount of money to be spent on the team. There is likely to be a change of mind and all the oldies will again be given a one year extension, in fact it needs a cull of the older players and a quality coach to be employed to sort this mess out. They say a fool and his money are Easy parted , how many of us are fools.

brilliant post

If we go for a brutal cull we'd definitely need to invest in serious talent both on and off the field. However, I think that if we get the right new coach the cull would happen even if we give out one-year extensions to the oldies, as they are as a group painfully past it and no new coach is going to care about how many trophies they've won in the past if it stops the team winning.

Quality post - ignore your important clients and they wont be your important clients.

If you want to increase your asking price then there needs to be some justification - why should sponsors pay a premium for the same old garbage. If you think GH totally ignored his most important revenue stream then your understanding of business and how it works is lacking.

Some justification, have you seen the videos of the new corperate bars, boxes, dining area. They are vastly vastly superior to anything in the game and rival anything in any sport. And they are not asking for an unreasonable increase for those superb facilities.

Those facilities (which I agree look excellent) are only of any interest to customers who primarily want to enjoy the product on the field. I've done enough corporate entertaining (where I'm trying to get customers interested in an event) to know that if the event is poor then it doesn't matter a jot what the facilities are like.

The analogy is are you better off being happy at home or bored in luxury? Without the right quality product on the field (that means both teams) then the facilities are almost meaningless.

They are not that superior to the Lewis Jones - the boxes I would agree are pretty special but you have to be able to get customers to the venue - there is no parking either.

If the product on the field doesn't stimulate customers to want to attend then the money is completely wasted. That in a nutshell was a contributory factor to the decision to change management. RL isn't the draw that soccer is - so its got to be good.

Great facilities in the championship are not as useful as good facilities in SL.

Having been to a fair few corporate sporting events, the main difference is that more 'niche' sports have to work harder all round - both on and off field. If something's seen as an event it will sell itself (e.g. rugby internationals), whereas for the niche sports you have to create an experience that actually makes people want to come back. A run-of-the-mill SL game wouldn't be seen as an event, so the whole experience has to be good, and that does include the game itself IMO.