FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > 2023 | Injuries & Suspension |
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| Quote: Saddened! "The reversal of the ban is a good decision and I think the correct outcome, but as ever it's regrettable we ended up here.
However, it does throw up another glaring problem with the process. Effectively this has set the precedent that if there isn't clear video evidence of something happening, it overrides the word of the officials. The wording today confirms they haven't proved he didn't do it, just that they can't sufficiently prove he did. Ignoring this particular incident and focusing on that, I think it's very dangerous. It calls into questioning the whole MRP process, I'm not sure why they forensically re-referee games in the first place. In which other sports do they take the game apart and look to ban as many players as possible? You could very easily ban an extra 20 Premier League players a week if they re-refereed everything that goes on, 50 if you include diving as a bannable offense.
I think attacking Lomax's character is completely out of order though. There are a few on social media wishing injury or worse on Lomax. His comments were not targeted at any player and he did not ask for any cards. He's the captain and is trying to make sure the penalty goes Saints way in the heat of the game. Those wishing injury on him need to reflect, you've got the high Chief of bad character playing fullback for you. This is another example of the outcome of the MRP and their work. The entire sport is incredibly toxic. You've got Sky pundits, journalists, club owners, former referees, coaches, players and fans all bombarding social media after games, demanding bans. The talk after games isn't about Handley's great try or Walmsley's run before the drop goal, Holroyd's development or Walters' spicyness, it's about this player or that player and whether they can ban them for it.
The whole MRP process needs to be ripped up and started again. Let's start trusting the match officials to make decisions and if they are unsure on the field, they refer it to the video ref. You deal with it in game and it's not the next 2,3,4,5 teams the offender plays after it that benefit. If it's something they can't see on the field and can't pick up on the video referee and needs nine camera angles, it's not worth looking at.'"
Great post
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| Quote: Saddened! "The reversal of the ban is a good decision and I think the correct outcome, but as ever it's regrettable we ended up here.
However, it does throw up another glaring problem with the process. Effectively this has set the precedent that if there isn't clear video evidence of something happening, it overrides the word of the officials. The wording today confirms they haven't proved he didn't do it, just that they can't sufficiently prove he did. Ignoring this particular incident and focusing on that, I think it's very dangerous. It calls into questioning the whole MRP process, I'm not sure why they forensically re-referee games in the first place. In which other sports do they take the game apart and look to ban as many players as possible? You could very easily ban an extra 20 Premier League players a week if they re-refereed everything that goes on, 50 if you include diving as a bannable offense.
I think attacking Lomax's character is completely out of order though. There are a few on social media wishing injury or worse on Lomax. His comments were not targeted at any player and he did not ask for any cards. He's the captain and is trying to make sure the penalty goes Saints way in the heat of the game. Those wishing injury on him need to reflect, you've got the high Chief of bad character playing fullback for you. This is another example of the outcome of the MRP and their work. The entire sport is incredibly toxic. You've got Sky pundits, journalists, club owners, former referees, coaches, players and fans all bombarding social media after games, demanding bans. The talk after games isn't about Handley's great try or Walmsley's run before the drop goal, Holroyd's development or Walters' spicyness, it's about this player or that player and whether they can ban them for it.
The whole MRP process needs to be ripped up and started again. Let's start trusting the match officials to make decisions and if they are unsure on the field, they refer it to the video ref. You deal with it in game and it's not the next 2,3,4,5 teams the offender plays after it that benefit. If it's something they can't see on the field and can't pick up on the video referee and needs nine camera angles, it's not worth looking at.'"
Couldn’t agree more. Rugby Union’s use of the video ref is where I think we should be at. Running things in the background whilst play continues. Try’s being awarded by the referee if the ball has been seen to be grounded. Referee leading the TMO review process where needed.
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| it was a great post except for the sly dig at myler which was quite uncalled for. and wrong
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| Quote: Saddened! "I think attacking Lomax's character is completely out of order though. There are a few on social media wishing injury or worse on Lomax. His comments were not targeted at any player and he did not ask for any cards. He's the captain and is trying to make sure the penalty goes Saints way in the heat of the game. Those wishing injury on him need to reflect, you've got the high Chief of bad character playing fullback for you.'"
It's his silence subsequent to the match I have the problem with, not during. Heat of the game I get. Regardless, I certainly wouldn't wish injury upon him.
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| Quote: tad rhino "it was a great post except for the sly dig at myler which was quite uncalled for. and wrong'"
But also in context. If we're questioning Lomax as being unsporting, where is Myler on that scale?
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| Quote: Clearwing "It's his silence subsequent to the match I have the problem with, not during. Heat of the game I get. Regardless, I certainly wouldn't wish injury upon him.'"
How many times do you see players come out and do that? Has it ever happened?
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| name me a RL player who has never 'won' a penalty?
I haven't questioned lomax. he possibly felt he had been punched. who knows
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| How many times this season have we seen players receive a red or yellow card during a game, only for the MRP panel to come up with N/A or no charge. In a lot of those cases it could be argued that the loss of the player has had an impact on the result of the game. Look at the boards, how many time is one players action, that has received a ban, been compared with a player from another club, that hasn't. The inconsistency in both match officiating and MRP decisions is now becoming the main problem in the game. I hate to say it but Union is leaving us behind with their system.
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| What a fiasco, watching the playback the ref states that he is being sent off as the touch judge has seen a punch thrown. Now apparently nobody has seen a punch thrown.
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| Echoing what a few have said but this whole situation is odd. I'll admit I'm a huge Jonny Lomax fan, and he gets hit late multiple times in every game and very little is done about it mainly because he's not one for staying down to milk a penalty. Anyway in the game he's claimed he was punched and the linesman has said he saw a punch. I saw nothing on the TV to back up the claim of a punch but 2 people reported it. The fact that it doesn't appear on the video shouldn't trump 2 eye witnesses should it? Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
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| Bull. If there's continuous video footage then you CAN prove no punch was thrown. In this case absence of evidence IS evidence of absence. Perhaps the saintly (pun intended) Lomax isn't as squeaky clean as people keep saying? Maybe in the heat of the moment he tried to get someone sent off, and succeeded?
The court of public opinion is always mob dumbness, just like when judging the apparently odious Myler, whose last 'offence' consisted of headbutting Hurrell's shoulder to get him sent off....
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| Quote: Harry Pinner "Echoing what a few have said but this whole situation is odd. I'll admit I'm a huge Jonny Lomax fan, and he gets hit late multiple times in every game and very little is done about it mainly because he's not one for staying down to milk a penalty. Anyway in the game he's claimed he was punched and the linesman has said he saw a punch. I saw nothing on the TV to back up the claim of a punch but 2 people reported it. The fact that it doesn't appear on the video shouldn't trump 2 eye witnesses should it? Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.'"
Did Lomax claim he was punched?
Maybe he got caught by a forearm or elbow from someone running in to stop the pushing and shoving and thought it was McDonnell?
The fact that the cameras at the game and the video footage provided by Leeds shows no punch thrown by McDonnell means you cannot prove it happened.
Sadly the sport is going down the route most footballers use to get penalties and players sent off in order to win games.
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| Over on RedVee they've somehow converted this decision into further evidence that the MRP is targeting them, they're a weirdly paranoid lot over there.
As for the appeal? Sanity has prevailed. I'm all for believing the team of officials in the absence of contradictory evidence, but they only get one look and there was a hell of a lot going on, I don't think it undermines them whatsoever to say "We've had a look at all the footage from half a dozen HD cameras at different angles, zoomed in, slow-mo'd, freeze framed, and it turns out you were mistaken." I don't blame the lino, he might have mistaken a grab for a punch, which is easy enough to do, but also the brain does funny things while memories are being formed - you see a coming together with one aggressor, you glance the other way for a moment and when you turn back the other party has a bust lip and is covered in blood - your brain can very easily fill in the gaps, turn a shove into a punch and that's instantly your reality. You don't doubt yourself in that circumstance because why would you?
The only problems I have with this whole event is that the video ref had ample time to step in and should have, and the MRP should have looked at the footage before issuing the ban, it would have saved everyone a lot of bother. I certainly don't blame the linesman or the ref who both did what they thought was right, or Lomax (other than for being a d*ck to Walters) because he probably thought he had been punched.
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| Quote: Big Jim Slade "
As for the appeal? Sanity has prevailed. I'm all for believing the team of officials in the absence of contradictory evidence, but they only get one look and there was a hell of a lot going on, I don't think it undermines them whatsoever to say "We've had a look at all the footage from half a dozen HD cameras at different angles, zoomed in, slow-mo'd, freeze framed, and it turns out you were mistaken." I don't blame the lino, he might have mistaken a grab for a punch, which is easy enough to do, but also the brain does funny things while memories are being formed - you see a coming together with one aggressor, you glance the other way for a moment and when you turn back the other party has a bust lip and is covered in blood - your brain can very easily fill in the gaps, turn a shove into a punch and that's instantly your reality. You don't doubt yourself in that circumstance because why would you?
The only problems I have with this whole event is that the video ref had ample time to step in and should have, and the MRP should have looked at the footage before issuing the ban, it would have saved everyone a lot of bother. I certainly don't blame the linesman or the ref who both did what they thought was right, or Lomax (other than for being a d*ck to Walters) because he probably thought he had been punched.'"
Very sensible post, couldn't agree more.
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| Any news on how long Newman's absence will be?
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