That's probably the fairest assessment of MM I've read from an opposition fan.

Quote: Phuzzy "Well Sean Long notoriously spat his dummy and got sent home from one tour. I know this board had many a pop at James Graham when he was at Saints for being a dummy spitter and he's played many times for the national side and continues to do so. I could go on but I don't want the thread derailed by people arguing who is and who isn't but suffice to say that if you think everyone who plays for the national side is a paragon of virtue then you're very naïve. What's more, there are far worse things that are overlooked to accommodate a player if the coach thinks they are the man for the job on the field! I'd be interested in your definition of a 'dummy spitter' and why you think that would preclude them from selection. Has there been some particular incident between Brough and McNamara that the rest of us aren't privy to for example? As for MOS; you seem to be presenting rugby players as more virtuous than the rest of us. If we don't like someone we are less inclined to bestow honour on them. Just take your own reaction to the suggestion that Brough was an option for the national side or the general resistance to accepting Micky Mac as a good player on this board for proof of that. The bottom line is Brough was the form half last season and MM has performed at the highest level, been picked for England ahead of players most on this board would say are better and been acclaimed by pundits on both sides of the world! Yet in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary this board consistently says he's a poor player or nothing but a thug etc. Why? because the people saying that don't like him. Simple as that. I'm not saying some players wouldn't be able to overlook their dislike (if indeed they did dislike Brough in the first place) but enough to win MOS ahead of great and universally liked players such as Peacock and O'Loughlin? I very much doubt it!'" Well it was in reference to international selection so neither the James Graham or the previous example of Jason Robinson really applies here. As for Sean Long he never played for England/GB again. As for Brough's dummy spit it was more in reference to his episode when he decided he wouldn't stick around and chance not being selected for England. The week following his post match interview where he said he wasn't going to play for England in the WC (roughly end of May 2013), the Scotland coach came out and admitted that he and Brough had been in contact for over a year (so AT LEAST May 2012, 18 months before the WC). www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/22812414 Clearly for a long period he was keeping his options open and went for the easy choice instead of the gamble, then placed the blame on McNamara for his treatment even though he'd been in a lot of prolonged contact with another national coach. The kind of guy to build your squad around? Hardly. At least he could've just come out and said he didn't want to run the risk of not playing in a WC.....but he didn't, he went for the "boo, hiss, McNamara's fault" approach. Dummy spitter indeed.

Quote: Phuzzy "Well Sean Long notoriously spat his dummy and got sent home from one tour. I know this board had many a pop at James Graham when he was at Saints for being a dummy spitter and he's played many times for the national side and continues to do so. I could go on but I don't want the thread derailed by people arguing who is and who isn't but suffice to say that if you think everyone who plays for the national side is a paragon of virtue then you're very naïve. What's more, there are far worse things that are overlooked to accommodate a player if the coach thinks they are the man for the job on the field! I'd be interested in your definition of a 'dummy spitter' and why you think that would preclude them from selection. Has there been some particular incident between Brough and McNamara that the rest of us aren't privy to for example? As for MOS; you seem to be presenting rugby players as more virtuous than the rest of us. If we don't like someone we are less inclined to bestow honour on them. Just take your own reaction to the suggestion that Brough was an option for the national side or the general resistance to accepting Micky Mac as a good player on this board for proof of that. The bottom line is Brough was the form half last season and MM has performed at the highest level, been picked for England ahead of players most on this board would say are better and been acclaimed by pundits on both sides of the world! Yet in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary this board consistently says he's a poor player or nothing but a thug etc. Why? because the people saying that don't like him. Simple as that. I'm not saying some players wouldn't be able to overlook their dislike (if indeed they did dislike Brough in the first place) but enough to win MOS ahead of great and universally liked players such as Peacock and O'Loughlin? I very much doubt it!'" Well it was in reference to international selection so neither the James Graham or the previous example of Jason Robinson really applies here. As for Sean Long he never played for England/GB again. As for Brough's dummy spit it was more in reference to his episode when he decided he wouldn't stick around and chance not being selected for England. The week following his post match interview where he said he wasn't going to play for England in the WC (roughly end of May 2013), the Scotland coach came out and admitted that he and Brough had been in contact for over a year (so AT LEAST May 2012, 18 months before the WC). www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/22812414 Clearly for a long period he was keeping his options open and went for the easy choice instead of the gamble, then placed the blame on McNamara for his treatment even though he'd been in a lot of prolonged contact with another national coach. The kind of guy to build your squad around? Hardly. At least he could've just come out and said he didn't want to run the risk of not playing in a WC.....but he didn't, he went for the "boo, hiss, McNamara's fault" approach. Dummy spitter indeed.

Widdopp will be 6 for England if fit, hopefully for years to come. At present Sinfield is the incumbent halfback, but whilst he has said he wants to play on, it'll be up to McNamara to decide if he should start looking for a genuine halfback to acompany Widdopp. Purely on form, I'd go for Hardaker at 1 and Tomkins at 7, as I think we need our best players in the team, even if it means moving one or two around to get them in the team.

With Hardaker, Brough and Hock, its up to them to convince McNamara to select them IMO. I can really understand if the lads that let themselves down during the WC have to do a lot to persuade McNamara they mean business. That was shocking form from so-called professional sportsmen.

As for Brough, I'd think McNamara has less of an axe to frind, but the problem will be the same - you may get picked if you're willing to fight for a place, but there's no automatic spot. Brough has shown previously that he's too scared to fight for a place and would rather play for Scotland. I'd say the choice is probably still his.

I agree with much of this except that one dummy spitter is because he wants to win and the other is because he's a baby. Are you saying that Brough's frustration doesn't stem from the same desire to win or that Graham's is somehow more noble? Again I would point to your personal view of each player as the reason you see it this way. There is no other concrete reason to make this conclusion as far as I'm aware. Fair assessment of MM by the way!

Quote: Phuzzy "Look, I can't claim to know the ins and outs of what happened and I strongly suspect that neither can you. However I do know what you write above is an exceedingly coloured view of what happened. It's a matter of record that Brough wasn't picked for the WC squad'" Of course he wasn't, he ruled himself out several months before it started. Quote: Phuzzy "Furthermore, apart from one solitary game, he hadn't been picked for England previously.'" He'd not really been available all that long to be selected, and did his form in say 2010, 2011, 2012 come close to what he started to show in 2013? Like the Hudds team he was hot and cold. Quote: Phuzzy "At 30 years old this was likely to be his last World cup and, by McNamara's own admission, didn't figure in his England plans.'" Dated just 2 months before Brough ruled himself out.... He actually said "I'm not playing second fiddle every year". But again, how many years did he truly show enough to be considered for England BEFORE the 2013 season? He got a shot in summer of 2012 in an Exiles and played poorly, and also from my previous post we know he was talking to the Scotland coach around this time that he finally got given his England debut. Quote: Phuzzy "Now don't get me wrong, I have no agenda either for or against Danny Brough. All I do know is that it proves the point I was making earlier. You have decided you don't like him and you view everything he does in the worst possible light even when, as in this case, there is a perfectly justifiable reason for what he did should you care to view it rationally.'" Well Tony Smith who'll more than likely have some in-game hearsay knowledge believes Brough was very much in the wrong and said Brough's reasoning was "exactly why you wouldn't pick him" www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/22800164 "Anybody should be really honoured and privileged to represent their country, and if they're asked to sit behind somebody or compete with somebody, overcome them and show a great attitude - that's what we're after as coaches. "Sometimes players don't show the best attitude within an environment. You'd rather have a great attitude than a great player." BTW, I don't view Brough's actions in "the worst possible light" because it's him, I view them in the light that's been provided by what I've read and heard and base them on that.

Quote: Phuzzy "Look, I can't claim to know the ins and outs of what happened and I strongly suspect that neither can you. However I do know what you write above is an exceedingly coloured view of what happened. It's a matter of record that Brough wasn't picked for the WC squad'" Of course he wasn't, he ruled himself out several months before it started. Quote: Phuzzy "Furthermore, apart from one solitary game, he hadn't been picked for England previously.'" He'd not really been available all that long to be selected, and did his form in say 2010, 2011, 2012 come close to what he started to show in 2013? Like the Hudds team he was hot and cold. Quote: Phuzzy "At 30 years old this was likely to be his last World cup and, by McNamara's own admission, didn't figure in his England plans.'" Dated just 2 months before Brough ruled himself out.... He actually said "I'm not playing second fiddle every year". But again, how many years did he truly show enough to be considered for England BEFORE the 2013 season? He got a shot in summer of 2012 in an Exiles and played poorly, and also from my previous post we know he was talking to the Scotland coach around this time that he finally got given his England debut. Quote: Phuzzy "Now don't get me wrong, I have no agenda either for or against Danny Brough. All I do know is that it proves the point I was making earlier. You have decided you don't like him and you view everything he does in the worst possible light even when, as in this case, there is a perfectly justifiable reason for what he did should you care to view it rationally.'" Well Tony Smith who'll more than likely have some in-game hearsay knowledge believes Brough was very much in the wrong and said Brough's reasoning was "exactly why you wouldn't pick him" www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/22800164 "Anybody should be really honoured and privileged to represent their country, and if they're asked to sit behind somebody or compete with somebody, overcome them and show a great attitude - that's what we're after as coaches. "Sometimes players don't show the best attitude within an environment. You'd rather have a great attitude than a great player." BTW, I don't view Brough's actions in "the worst possible light" because it's him, I view them in the light that's been provided by what I've read and heard and base them on that.

Re niggly players, I think there's a line that shouldn't be crossed in the modern game. A cheap shot's one thing but if it's the type of cheap shot intended to break an opponent's jaw or rupture knee ligaments then I'd hope (possibly in vain) that fans of the perpetrator's own club wouldn't defend him or his actions.

In response to Rogues


It's a shame that Rogues hasn't had the decency to back down and retract his defamatory remark that he made regarding Danny McGuire being a a horrible excuse for a man and countering my proposal of giving me his unbiased view of Micky Mac

I always thought that Rogues was a very knowledgeable poster and one who always could be considered as showing integrity on these forums and that despite his constant drivel and dislike of the Rhinos academy and that it was in terminal decline, although i always took these comments tongue - in - cheek

I would like to tell Rogues a little tale here and the reason why i have taken such a dislike to his comments:

My niece suffers from a mild form of downs syndrome and had to spend her early years at the Hawthorn Family Support , which is situated in Danny's back yard of East End Park Leeds, and each time i paid a visit there Danny was always in attendance giving his spare time up for free, I believe that he is as a patron of this worthy cause at Leeds Mencap

During the time i spent there i can honestly say that i was humbled being in Danny's company and with how much of his free time that he freely gave up supporting these under privileged kids, so much so that i even pretended not to know who he was and that i also never let on that i was a Rhinos fan whilst i was chatting to him, However a couple of weeks later and whilst i was in the long bar after a game Danny only came up to me and asked me by name how my niece was doing

I will never ever forget that moment of sincerity shown by such a Horrible excuse for a man

Belated, but in fairness perhaps you have a life ( unlike some on here )

Good on yer and mentioning Edwards reminded me of when he got sent off against the Aussies early in the game and we won the game and they blamed the incident for costing them the game

Are you still here for the Magic Weekend?
And if you are are you going?

Unfortunately no I was only home for four days had to fit a lot in including a family wedding.Be back bit later in season and longer than 4 days