Point still stands, Leeds are in a team in decline, I've just outlined that.

No matter what happens tomorrow, winning the CC and getting to the GF is a big achievement for any team.

Especially if you do it back to back.

It is, no issue there. Leeds have been a great team, some excellent players especially in recent years, but now they're on the decline. Stars are ageing, results v Wire and Wigan shows how things have now changed.

Leeds aren't the force they once were, they're in decline, thats the whole point.

What about other players? That Dorian Gray from the academy seems to be bucking the trend.

So the defeats to Wigan and Warrington show a Leeds team in decline?

What do the wins over Wigan and Warrington in the same season show, just out of interest?

Leeds have been Wrote before,but the thing is you lot have not been here in this context for quite a while.It shows how Leeds succes in a Salary capped League has really annoyed you.Leeds have had their success and are the best run club in SL.Wigan had theirs and went bankrupt.I was impartial before this mush came on a thread about Signing Briscoe ,but its Wire all the way now their fans are a decent lot.I mean when you signed Feilden we never said you were in decline because we all know you couldn't any lower.Ask Cas

Look at your performances v Wigan and Wire, spot the line between that and your ageing players. Doesn't take a genius to see how some of your stars aren't performing to the same standard they did a few years back.

It happens to all players, and often teams hit a decline when a number of players who are all hitting their decline together.

My team don't have any stars. We used to have one but he left.

Leeds having success in the SC era has really annoyed me? Sorry I don't ever remember saying that. You seem to be now making up things.

Point is I've mentioned and supported my point, Leeds are on the decline. What's your point in reference to that exactly?

You'll have to expand.

Actually nothing. At the end of the day it's about getting to the finals and winning. Wigan and Warrington both won when it mattered. Wigan winning the CC and getting to the final, Wire for getting to the GF.

Leeds have lost the big games that mattered this year. That doesn't mean they are in decline, it just means they weren't good enough. We will only know if we are in decline in 6-12 months time with the benefit of hindsight.

If Wigan fail to win tomorrow, would their fans see the season as a sucess? Lost two of their most influencial players, won a cup by default, and has a fairly poor league campaign. It really is an all or nothing game for Wigan.

Personally, I think they'll win. But i'd love Wire to win, just so we don't get all the Wigan posters bragging on here

So when you won sod all in 2012 did that make you a team in decline?

So the goalposts are now moved from "Leeds are in decline because they lost to Wigan and Warrington" to "Leeds are in decline because they didn't make either major final".

Keep going, you'll find something to support your theory eventually. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.