The ability to turn obstacles in to opportunities is what makes a champion side. Quality players are able to change their position and responsibilities the fact is Leeds can do this better than Saints is one of the reasons Leeds are have won 4 GF's in a row against them.

If your props arent doing this, they arent very good props.

he seems to have fallen for that old trick a fair few times now. Surely he [icant[/i be that stupid

Oh, how very gracious of him.

How very brave of him to tell teacher about the bigger boys. Or he could have put Lima on his and made him look a fool. If you ask anybody who has ever played in any pack what they would do if one of their team-mates 'told on' the opposition they would probably smack him upside the head for giving the opposition the upper hand. The first thing you learn as a forward is that you never, ever, let them know they have hurt you.

Wellens had a very good game despite the injury. An important tackle to push McGuire into goal for a drop out, a tackle on saints left side followed by perfect position to collect a kick through on the right on the next tackle.

Did Anthony Watmough tell you to say that!

Agreed. For me he had a great game and I was relieved to see him go. Sorry to see him hurt. But glad to see him go.

That gather on the floor from under the fingertips of the onrushing Leeds attack he had no rights to get to. Was world class. Peoples opinion and regard for Wellens and their opinions of Wilkin just demonstrates the difference between a quiet brave and committed talent from the Joynt school of thinking, and an underachieving whiner from the Millward school of thinking.

That sounds like you typed that through gritted teeth.

By my calculations if Shenton had not played at all on saturday Leeds would have scored 112 points!

In Barry mac testimonial brochure scroots gives an account in one of his first games first team running on the pitch. Opposition props were saying they were gonna smash the young lad. Next minute Barry mac has hold of one of them saying they would have him to deal with first. Maybe this is what wilkin should have done rather than running to the press if he feels strongly about it, or maybe he doesn't have the melons for that

Why speak to him so patronising, and like he is a child?

I dissagreed with tvoc on the players entering the field, and thought he was been pedantic. But on this issue he is only raising a valid point.

Not one single person I have spoken to about Saturday's game (many neutrals and many oppossition fans) have said anything other than it was really lucky that Shenton went off but what a great game. You would have to be incredibly biased and one eyed not to see that his injury played a major momentum swing in Leeds favour.

But those are the crumbs you are fed, and Leeds were clinical in taking advantage of the situation. These sort of things happen in most games, and Leeds should be credited for taking the initiative and exploiting the situation. But let's not be so arrogant as to ignore the reality of the situation.

IMO regardless of Shenton been off Leeds still dominated that game for 75% of the game, and therefore were deserving of the win, and the truth is we will never know whether we would have still won with Shenton on the field, and I don't really care.

When has Jon Wilkin ever said he's 'harder' than Bailey? What happens if they can't have a fight during the game? Dual on Sir Matt Busby Way, Wild West style afterwards?

Wilkin's comments aren't that controversial IMO. Bailey was being a d$ck, Wilkin said he's got no respect for him. I'm sure you would get that response from most SL players if you asked them and I'm sure you'd get it from a few Leeds players as well, they weren't overly impressed with how he was behaving either.

Had Bailey physically done something I'm sure they would have responded, but it wouldn't exactly be appropriate to get sent off in a GF because Bailey was being a fool would it?

Didn't say that wilkin thought he has "harder" than bailey. I only stated that if he felt strongly about Bailey intimidating the younger players he should have maybe confronted him there and then, doesn't have to fight. Instead he said nothing does nothing other than winge to the press after it all happened!

Get of your high horse Gotcha, I didn't reply to anyone, it was tongue in cheek and the initial summary about Shenton was from a saints fan nothing to do with tvoc.

Shenton (and Wellens for that matter) were both on the field up to the end of the first half, which Leeds led.

The first twenty of the 2nd half had nothing to do with Leeds "having no joy" it was to do with Saints playing well and Leeds having no ball. You make it sound as though we were behind in the first half and spent the first twenty mins of the 2nd half battering down our left only to be repelled by Michael Menninga Shenton. At the stage of Shenton's injury I recall the TV crew saying Saints had enjoyed 80% possession or something like.

Once the possession evened up the game actually turned on two runs down Leeds right hand side by Lautiti, both of which earned penalties and repeat sets.

Saints had their swing of the momentum and built an 8 point lead from it because of the resolute nature of Leeds goal line defence. Leeds got their swing of the momentum and Saints melted. It had nothing to do with Michael Shenton being there or not.

Being

Ok. It's 21 pages in and still no-one, it seems, can actually say what Bailey did. The radio interviews with Wilkin & Foster that tvoc kindly posted do not describe what he did either. Wilkin specifically says it was "after the game" which I assume to mean after the final whistle. All Wilkin says is that Bailey was "whooping & celebrating" and that he squared up to younger Saints players and to "check the tapes". Well I've checked them. Immediately after the final whistle Bailey is indeed whooping & celebrating but unless I've missed it I can't see a point where he ever squares up to any Saints player at all. I wonder if Wilkin's obvious dislike for Bailey has got to him and we know that Wilkin has a hard time concealing his dismay after a grand final.
As for Jamie Foster, he specifically says that he didn't see it. So is obviously going off what someone else (Wilkin?) told him.

Personally, unless the whole incident is well after the game or not when Wilkin said it was, I just think that Wilkin didn't like Bailey celebrating so much before going to shake hands with the Saints players