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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: Tony Soprano "Can someone bring me up to speed, is Rogues a troll or real?'"
Real, but fighting a losing battle on a few fronts this time. | | |
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usually pretty decent bloke but making himself look silly on this
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| Quote: rhinoms "Phuzzy-Re-Hardaker that's becoming his normal level of performance and whilst I rate Lomax ,Hardaker imo is a better all round FB but can see Lomax as a HB for England he is much better than Myler and Sinfield isn't getting any younger.'"
This was also something put forward on the Saints board but I'd be surprised if the national side had a half who wasn't at least playing there on a regular basis, especially as we have Widdop currently waiting in the wings plus some good young halves coming through once Sinfield does hang up his boots. I also think he'd be more tempted to play Tomkins in the halves and Hardaker at FB if that's the route he did decide to go down, given that he's played him there in the past albeit against lesser opposition. I still find it difficult to imagine that given Brough, a dedicated half, couldn't make the squad last time round that McNamara would suddenly see a fullback as a better option. Having said that, stranger things have happened when it comes to the national side!  | | |
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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: Phuzzy "This was also something put forward on the Saints board but I'd be surprised if the national side had a half who wasn't at least playing there on a regular basis, especially as we have Widdop currently waiting in the wings plus some good young halves coming through once Sinfield does hang up his boots. I also think he'd be more tempted to play Tomkins in the halves and Hardaker at FB if that's the route he did decide to go down, given that he's played him there in the past albeit against lesser opposition. I still find it difficult to imagine that given Brough, a dedicated half, couldn't make the squad last time round that McNamara would suddenly see a fullback as a better option. Having said that, stranger things have happened when it comes to the national side!'"
FYI, Brough didn't make the squad because he's a dummy spitting crybaby. | | | |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
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| Quote: ThePrinter "FYI, Brough didn't make the squad because he's a dummy spitting crybaby.'"
Maybe so, but it's never stopped anyone in the past! He was the form half last season and, given he won MOS, must be reasonably popular with other players. In either case the point remains... | | |
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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: Phuzzy "Maybe so, but it's never stopped anyone in the past! www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/22812414
Clearly for a long period he was keeping his options open and went for the easy choice instead of the gamble, then placed the blame on McNamara for his treatment even though he'd been in a lot of prolonged contact with another national coach. The kind of guy to build your squad around? Hardly. At least he could've just come out and said he didn't want to run the risk of not playing in a WC.....but he didn't, he went for the "boo, hiss, McNamara's fault" approach. Dummy spitter indeed. |
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Quote: Phuzzy "Well Sean Long notoriously spat his dummy and got sent home from one tour. I know this board had many a pop at James Graham when he was at Saints for being a dummy spitter and he's played many times for the national side and continues to do so. I could go on but I don't want the thread derailed by people arguing who is and who isn't but suffice to say that if you think everyone who plays for the national side is a paragon of virtue then you're very naïve. What's more, there are far worse things that are overlooked to accommodate a player if the coach thinks they are the man for the job on the field! I'd be interested in your definition of a 'dummy spitter' and why you think that would preclude them from selection. Has there been some particular incident between Brough and McNamara that the rest of us aren't privy to for example?
As for MOS; you seem to be presenting rugby players as more virtuous than the rest of us. If we don't like someone we are less inclined to bestow honour on them. Just take your own reaction to the suggestion that Brough was an option for the national side or the general resistance to accepting Micky Mac as a good player on this board for proof of that. The bottom line is Brough was the form half last season and MM has performed at the highest level, been picked for England ahead of players most on this board would say are better and been acclaimed by pundits on both sides of the world! Yet in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary this board consistently says he's a poor player or nothing but a thug etc. Why? because the people saying that don't like him. Simple as that. I'm not saying some players wouldn't be able to overlook their dislike (if indeed they did dislike Brough in the first place) but enough to win MOS ahead of great and universally liked players such as Peacock and O'Loughlin? I very much doubt it!'"
Well it was in reference to international selection so neither the James Graham or the previous example of Jason Robinson really applies here. As for Sean Long he never played for England/GB again.
As for Brough's dummy spit it was more in reference to his episode when he decided he wouldn't stick around and chance not being selected for England.
The week following his post match interview where he said he wasn't going to play for England in the WC (roughly end of May 2013), the Scotland coach came out and admitted that he and Brough had been in contact for over a year (so AT LEAST May 2012, 18 months before the WC).
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/22812414
Clearly for a long period he was keeping his options open and went for the easy choice instead of the gamble, then placed the blame on McNamara for his treatment even though he'd been in a lot of prolonged contact with another national coach. The kind of guy to build your squad around? Hardly. At least he could've just come out and said he didn't want to run the risk of not playing in a WC.....but he didn't, he went for the "boo, hiss, McNamara's fault" approach. Dummy spitter indeed. | |
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Widdopp will be 6 for England if fit, hopefully for years to come. At present Sinfield is the incumbent halfback, but whilst he has said he wants to play on, it'll be up to McNamara to decide if he should start looking for a genuine halfback to acompany Widdopp. Purely on form, I'd go for Hardaker at 1 and Tomkins at 7, as I think we need our best players in the team, even if it means moving one or two around to get them in the team.
With Hardaker, Brough and Hock, its up to them to convince McNamara to select them IMO. I can really understand if the lads that let themselves down during the WC have to do a lot to persuade McNamara they mean business. That was shocking form from so-called professional sportsmen.
As for Brough, I'd think McNamara has less of an axe to frind, but the problem will be the same - you may get picked if you're willing to fight for a place, but there's no automatic spot. Brough has shown previously that he's too scared to fight for a place and would rather play for Scotland. I'd say the choice is probably still his.
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| Quote: ThePrinter "Well it was in reference to international selection so neither the James Graham or the previous example of Jason Robinson really applies here. As for Sean Long he never played for England/GB again.
As for Brough's dummy spit it was more in reference to his episode when he decided he wouldn't stick around and chance not being selected for England.
The week following his post match interview where he said he wasn't going to play for England in the WC (roughly end of May 2013), the Scotland coach came out and admitted that he and Brough had been in contact for over a year (so AT LEAST May 2012, 18 months before the WC).
Look, I can't claim to know the ins and outs of what happened and I strongly suspect that neither can you. However I do know what you write above is an exceedingly coloured view of what happened. It's a matter of record that Brough wasn't picked for the WC squad, nor was he picked for the Exiles game. Furthermore, apart from one solitary game, he hadn't been picked for England previously. At 30 years old this was likely to be his last World cup and, by McNamara's own admission, didn't figure in his England plans. He did, however, have the chance to play for Scotland; a team he had been involved with for many years, even captaining them. Not surprisingly he chose to play for them. I would have done the same and, again, I guess you would have done too in a similar situation! How on earth do you conclude from that ''dummy spitter indeed'' except in an entirely biased assessment? He also, to my knowledge ever uttered words even approaching ''McNamara's fault'' (or ''boo, hiss for that matter!). IIRC he basically said he didn't want to spend any longer down the pecking order for England(or words to that effect) when he could be first choice for Scotland. Again, hardly an unreasonable view given his age etc. This was not some kid making his way in the game. If, even in a MOS winning season he was unable even to make the 20 man train on squad, I think it's fair to say that it didn't take a genius to work out he wasn't going to get his chance under Steve McNamara.
Now don't get me wrong, I have no agenda either for or against Danny Brough. All I do know is that it proves the point I was making earlier. You have decided you don't like him and you view everything he does in the worst possible light even when, as in this case, there is a perfectly justifiable reason for what he did should you care to view it rationally. I think that's probably all there is to say on the subject really, don't you?
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
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| Quote: Ferdy "Don't think personally it's the "dummy spitting" in isolation that's the issue. Graham was a bit of a dummy spitter but it just came across as frustration and wanting to win. It's very difficult to try and explain in writing but brough comes across more like a baby and if he doesn't get his own way the bat and ball go home. Compare to hardaker who had a mare at the World Cup. Gone away and come back stronger and determined. I don't know but brough it strikes me had the same happened to him as hardaker he would still be sulking about.
Regarding MM. Always liked him as a player. Strikes me as an ablett sort of player in that he is underated by other fans who don't appreciate what they do. For me he is tough as teak but does have a cheap shot streak in him. For me if he could control the cheap shots without losing his aggression he would improve. It's good to have a little niggle
In your team but I think MM goes too far sometimes.'"
I agree with much of this except that one dummy spitter is because he wants to win and the other is because he's a baby. Are you saying that Brough's frustration doesn't stem from the same desire to win or that Graham's is somehow more noble? Again I would point to your personal view of each player as the reason you see it this way. There is no other concrete reason to make this conclusion as far as I'm aware. Fair assessment of MM by the way! | | | |
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