When you are in a hole stop digging, grow up - even on twitter they are having a laugh at your expense.

Take it on the chin accept you were wrong and move on - you lost a battle, not your first either but you live to fight another day.

Learn a lesson unless you have seen the game don't make foolish/childish comments against somebody who took the trouble to go. It will always come back to haunt you especially on a board like this where people have long memories.

Gotcha has favourites and he often finds it difficult to be constructive about those players - accept that but also have the good grace to accept he was correct in this instance.

Trying to chime in on our debate again I see (not battle, are you 8 years old?).

OMG I'm getting mentioned on Twitter how exciting, what are they saying LOL #feelfamous.

Are they laughing about your claim that JJB never played prop in any important games back in 2006? You checked the line-ups for the 2006 playoff and CC semi yet???

You just kinda summed up my point at the end "Gotcha has his favourites and finds it hard to be constructive about it".

As for good grace. How many threads did you take over and then start on the night of the playoff defeat to Catalans when you kept yelping on about Gotcha and G1 alledgely saying it's all McGuire fault we lost when they merely said his penatly was as important as Briscoe's drop? Was it 5? 6?

You are very childish aren't you? I have tried to give you the good grace to just accept you were wrong. Not to say you were wrong on a player, but to say you were wrong to just pick at my post reflecting on the match I was at live and you just listened third hand on a radio at. And the reasons for that pick were that you only heard that players name once.

I was quite clear on Sunday that if others at the match come on and disagree then so be it, we all have opinions, but I just took exception to someone having a go who was not there and only heard I on the radio. I have asked on that basis if you were man enough to admit you were wrong to do that, and you have proven time and time again that you would rather keep digging than just simply have good grace.

You can't even read an interview properly without the stubbornness to try an say you are correct. The interview with your favourite is clear. Me personally, I don't really care what McDermott thinks, but I know you hang on his every word. In the interview he says that Ward has had some "outstanding" games for us, then goes on to say that Sunday was the "best he has played for us, I say". So if he was outstanding previously, and Sunday was better, what do you think he means? Me personally, on Sunday I only said the right hand side were excellent, not quite as good as "outstanding", yet you felt the need to have a go about it.

I don't have favourites, never have and never will, although will accept I have always given a greater degree of leeway to any poor showings from Sinfield. I will always comment on what I have just seen, and have never commented on game performance when I have not seen the match live. I would not dream on thinking I know best based on radio listening.

My comments at the time were entirely to do with the defensive effort of Ward. Although I accept your comment on Campese defence, the same can not be said of his attacking ability. In that respect and the stats back it up, Wards performance as part of that right hand side unit was excellent.

Seriously grow up - are you still at school because you are behaving like a juvenile?

JJB played prop in two of the most disappointing games in Tony Smith's whole reign - I would imagine it was not out of choice but out of need - how many important games as he played prop since?

I make no secret that Danny McGuire is my favourite player - I think he is an easy target on here as the captain seems beyond blame. Everyone is entitled to an opinion you included doesn't stop that opinion being challenged - although you appear to think yours is beyond any criticism.

Going back to point whilst Gotcha has favourites it is difficult to argue that his opinion is wrong - especially as you didn't even attend the game.

Here listen, I was quite happy to and had let this die a few pages back but up you popped in a debate that had nothing to do with you with this....



Since then your contribution has been to label me childish several times and to tell me that some people are laughing at me on Twitter.

We'd have all moved on from this about 3/4 pages back if you weren't hanging around like some turd that won't flush trying to fan the flames. So don't go throwing stones about being childish when you live in a massive glass house you hypocrite. Perhaps if you were better at arguing the points you were originally involved in you wouldn't have to jump on the coat tails of someone else's debate with me.

My final point on this because I'm fed up of your whinging and we have a moron on Twitter who can't read very well incorrectly claiming that I said Ward had a poor game when I clearly didn't. I stick by my view that Gotcha is exaggerating Ward's performances. Quite frankly if you read other people's report on the game on this very thread who went then no, the general view seems to be that he was ok/good.....so pretty much shows what I meant. And its all very good Gotcha throwing out the "but I attended" line......but seriously how many times have people attended games in the past and reviewed it only for him to deliver a condescending "you can't have watched the same game as me!" Usually most weeks.

As for this truly childish desire for me to 'admit I was wrong and apologise'. Firstly, haven't seen proof that I am (remember I didn't say Ward was poor, I questioned if he was as excellent as made out). Secondly, coming from two posters who always backtrack into the "we'll agree to disagree" line, this repeated "admit you're wrong" garbage is truly pathetic.


**oh and for the love of God check the 2006 line-ups before you keep making excuses. No it wasn't born out of some desperation that JJB ended up at prop as Peacock was selected at 2nd row so could've easily swapped them around.

Jesus, you really are a stubborn fool.

Of course you were prepared to let it drop - your stupidity and arrogance had once again been laid bare for all to see.

What you said was Gotcha had a "man crush" - now I would suspect that isn't the case so I would suggest you are wrong on that score. McDermott was very glowing in his praise of Ward - I think most normal posters would equate that to an excellent performance - would you not say? Of course your get out is McDermott didn't actually say "Excellent". How you can even say Gotcha over-egged his praise of Ward when you didn't attend the game demonstrates your arrogance/immaturity.

The about agree to disagree is simple way of avoiding going round in circles when the immovable object meets the irresistible force - its what grown ups do.

On JJB just answer the question posed - since 2006 how many major games has JJB played at prop - please for the love God!! I am not certain and I could be wrong but I think 2006 was Peacock's first season at Leeds and it wasn't until 2007 that Smith moved him to prop so the Peacock option possible didn't realistically exist? A factor in Peacock converting was probably the lack of options Leeds had at that time which probably explains why JJB ended up at prop for a short period something that wasn't repeated to any degree until this season

In matters of opinion no-one is ever really 'right' or 'wrong' - they just have their views. Printer's views are 'right' to Printer, and Gotcha's views are 'right' to Gotcha.

If this was a discussion of fact - ie. 'SW made the most metres' one would be right and wrong, but it is not. Arguing the right or wrong-ness is a bit of a moot point as the whole discussion is based on subjective opinion!

You need to go back a few pages, and see that is simply not the case here that is been debated. I attended the game on Sunday and voiced an opinion, where I said the right hand side of Ward, Watkins, and Briscoe were excellent.

Immediately after posting that Printer took me to task, saying I had a crush on Ward, and as he had only heard his name mentioned once on the radio that he would say he couldn't have had a good game, let alone an excellent one.

It is this that he refuses to accept he was wrong on. Not on Wards performance, but on the fact that myself who went, and the coach who coached them voiced their opinion by seeing it live, and he still believes because he listened to the radio and heard his name only once that proves his point.

The facts the stats, and other views since back up my initial post, isn't changing his mind despite him only have the benefit of a radio.

Now had we both seen the match live and voiced different opinions, then so be it, nobody would care less.

Oh, ok. Fair enough. I guess he is basing it on his experience - via the radio - because that is what he heard and however much you or B Mc says otherwise it probably won't alter his opinion because you are both saying what you saw and felt at the time and what he heard and experienced was different.

I suppose the issue with things like the radio is that they generally only vocalise the player with the ball, they don't describe all the off-the-ball stuff (they wouldn't have time to!) so things that you saw Printer will never have known via the radio.

Plus as well, things that SW might have done really well, whether they get reported by the commentator is a split-second choice. I didn't go so this is totally hypothetical (though maybe it did happen) but if SW had done an amazing trick and pass to set Ryan Hall away for a try, the commentator quickly decides whether to say 'what a bit of skill and pass by Stevie Ward to Ryan Hall who is away to score' or they might say 'great pass out wide to Ryan Hall who has a clear field ahead of him and and is a shoe in to score!'

Am I correct in thinking that the commentary team was predominantly KR biased?
In which event they are more likely to bull up or criticise their own team than the opposition.
To expect impartiality from a local radio commentary team is pie in the sky.

I didn't see last Sunday's game and I agree that Gotcha's past appraisals of players have, in my opinion, been jaundiced by favouritism. I'd also not be overly influenced by what a radio summariser says or doesn't say. Their opinion is worth little more than mine. Now most will know I'd enjoy nothing more than weighing in against Gotcha but having heard McDermott's interview on radio Leeds tonight and his effusive praise of Ward I'd have to say that Gotcha has emphatically been proven right.

If I were printer I'd back away from this thread quickly and quietly.

Same McDermott who said this less than 12 months ago?????

“Kirkey is a very unsung hero and he is actually growing in presence within the squad,” McDermott told the YEP.
“A lot of that is to do with his performances on the field. He is a very safe defender, a big man, very athletic and provides us with a lot of go-forward. Those 200 games will surprise a few people, but he has won a fair few bits of silverware at this club and it would be hard to have him out of your 17.
“If you are going to pick your best 17 over the last two, three or four years and maybe the next couple of years going forward, it would be a good player that pushes Kirkey out of the team. We are really grateful he is with us. We know what problems he causes the opposition.”

You must've been wrong about "Kirkey" all along

In fairness I have never once said or made out my "point was proven" by radio commentary. I threw out the suggestion that "excellent" was pushing it. And really the thing that caught my eye to start that point if you look back was that I also mentioned your criticism of McGuire.

People who went all seem to think McGuire played really well. However you posted this......

"He didn't have a good game, he was distinctly average. Better than Sinfield but not good. Came up with the deciding plays and credit for that, but made so many poor options throughout the game."

Yet if we are so adamant on McDermott's opinion then this quote is from another article from the YEP about the HKR game from McDermott......

"Danny was one of the outstanding performers, which got overlooked. He really got a grip of that game."

And even though this thread descending into arguments about Ward, my actual original post was to highlight how, unsurpringly, you poured cold water over McGuire and how it seemingly stemmed from past appraisals of a player......Ward was actually simply used as a comparison to my theory.

If McDermott's praise of Ward proves your point, then his praise of McGuire proves mine.

.................

Oh and someone tell Sal that Peacock started the first 13 rounds of 2006 at prop before being switched to 2nd row. He also captained Bulls to the 2005 GF from prop.