i keep waiting for the names too

Don't know if an outsider view of some of this helps but, for what it's worth, I think Ryan Hall is the best winger in superleague. However, I don't think he played the best in superleague last season and perhaps even the season before. I know on the face of it those statements may seem contradictory but what I mean is that in terms of ability he is the best but, for whatever reason, several other wingers were more effective during the 2014 regular season. Whether this is down to his centre/wing partnership, the fact that he is playing in an underperforming team or the extra workload (his number of carries is significantly in excess of every other winger), I couldn't say. Perhaps his performances in the 4 nations is an indicator though. His partnership with Sarginson was a joy to behold and he looked every inch the player we know he can be. Did he play to that standard with any regularity during the domestic season? Obviously I didn't get to see all his games but, from the limited times I did see him, he didn't seem to carry the same threat as I would normally expect. That's not to say he was ineffective of course! Far from it. Just not as dangerous as we have come to expect.

The same goes for Hardaker. He is without question one of the best in superleague. I think most teams would take him in a heartbeat. Again though, whether for similar reasons to Hall or because of the problems he had with the disciplinary, he only showed his best form in a handful of matches.

Last season I said without fear of contradiction that Leeds had the best back 5 of any team in the competition. It's interesting that this didn't turn into the onfield performances we all anticipated and, in the end, they were outperformed by several other teams backs. Notably Watkins was overtaken by Sarginson as England's best centre and many wingers comfortably outscored the Leeds pair. Going into 2015, is this board still of the opinion that the Leeds 5 are the best in the league as was generally accepted at the beginning of last season? It's perhaps stating the obvious a little but, on the evidence of last year at least, I'm not convinced they are.

yes they are as a unit. the problem has been,for me, the ponderous half backs. both have been supurb players but are shadows of their former selves. by the time the ball gets wide defences has been set. also the coach prefers to go down the middle. god only knows why with the talent we have wide.

No, as the per carry stats show we'd be better with a back 3 of Paul Wellens, Gene Ormsby and Omari Caro.

Seriously I think we have the best back 3 in the competition but I remain unconvinced by our centres. Moon is not a wingers centre which is bad when you have the best winger in the league outside him. Watkins has the skills but needs to impose himself a lot more

No I don't - I think there are 3/4 FBs in SL on a par of which Hardaker is one - they all have different skills and deficiencies. As the stats suggest Hardaker isn't head and shoulders above all the other FBs in SL as you and many on here would suggest. I respect your entitlement to an opinion I just don't agree.

On the second point most threequarters have the basic skill set to make a good stab at playing FB e.g. Hardaker I think Watkins would make an even better FB than Zac. Having the skill set to play Stand Off is a completely different proposition. I haven't seen Hardaker display the skill set I would suggest is required to play 6 in a top SL side. He never played 6 as a junior at the Lions and he didn't play 6 consistently at Rovers under Powell - quite why Powell thinks he could play 6 now is a mystery.

That would require some new ideas perhaps something the coach has exhausted - also you have to have the players to be able to execute something Leeds will struggle with until changes are made which will be in 2017 when both half backs will retire.

Nail, head, hit.
My thoughts exactly.
Still what do we, or those who select the Dream team or the England squad know compared to the coaching wizards on here?

Ha ha the dream team - you seriously use that as a guide as to who the best players in SL are?

On the selection for the England side - some are FBs were unavailable for selection due to not being English How many tests did Zac play on the tour down under, the coaches obviously had a lot of confidence in him given the FB they chose had the opposite skill set to Zac i.e. poor under the high ball, not a great defender, not a tackle buster but a more creative attacker - bizarre that given your earlier praise.

Aye.

There ain't too many Dream Teams selected where the 7th placed SL club gets 5 of their players included.

To be fair it sums up both the league and where we are as a club.

We have some top players, but that team is increasingly becoming made up of players who are past their best.

Names, Lieutenant!

Yeah, but the other 8 were sooooo awful.

I may be being overly pedantic and / or philosophical but isn't the 'Dream team' arguably the one that achieves the end goal? (In this case winning the SL?)

Obviously I understand the concept of 'dream team' (ie. the best players in each position across all those competing) but put it this way - would you rather there were 8 or 9 Leeds players but no SL title, or 0 or 1 Leeds players, but the title?

I think some of the 5 who got in were more by default rather more than anything else.

yes I think a new coach is needed. BM has been frustrating. the trophy haul, for which he deserves fantastic credit has been tempered with some abject displays, odd use of subs and bizarre tactics. its rumoured he will move upstairs at the end of this season to oversee RL and RU sides. a good move for him and the club I would say.
A new coach would then be free to overhaul the side and possibly this is why major recruitment has been left to next season

I'm not sure Briscoe could currently be considered one of the best wingers in the league but I think Hall and Hardaker are fair shouts. I think both Wigan wingers, Monaghan, Makinson and a couple others are ahead of Briscoe, certainly in terms of last year's superleague form, but if you mean as a complete unit I think it's a fair opinion. For my own part I don't think there's much in it with the Wigan back three though to be honest.

I agree with your second point too. It was a revelation to see how Hall's form improved at the four nations playing alongside Sarginson. I know he always seems able to raise his game at international level but, nevertheless, they really seemed to gel as a partnership. Sarginson certainly had the knack of creating the space Hall thrives in and we all know the standard of his finishing when he gets that kind of space! I think this raises a point that Tad Rhino brings up in his post. I'm not convinced that the Leeds back 5 are the best as a unit. Individually they have all the credentials but it's the partnerships that appear lacking to me.

Just as a point of comparison with Wigan (which is obviously the team I see most) it seems to me that the partnerships are more than the sum of their parts. Burgess had an outstanding first season playing outside Sarginson culminating in being nominated for YPOTY and elevation into the national squad. Charnley scored 19 tries in just 16 games playing outside Gelling who was immense in making the hard yards which, as a result, made it much easier for Charnley to do what he does best in finishing tries. This last partnership in particular maybe highlights the problem best. The stats suggest Hall is doing far too much work away from the tryline. I don't know the reasons for this, of course, but I'm guessing from your post and others that it's a combination of misfunctioning halves and Moon simply not putting him in space as he perhaps should be.

Whatever the reasons, I think it's fair to say that the combinations as they stand aren't really getting the best out of the individual players. This might be a simplistic solution (albeit one that's been known to work) but has a switch of wing/centre partners ever been tried? Watkins' and Hall's games seem more suited to me, although I would qualify that by saying that is based purely on skillset rather than ever having seen either played 'out of position'. Perhaps the same could be true for Moon and Briscoe?