Just a point on the Leeds/Yorkshire Carnegie thing.

It's very much a created entity, formed from the merger of the old Headingley and Roundhay clubs. The problem with that is that there are very few people with any great loyalty to it as an institution, either locally or further afield. Those involved with other clubs at a lower level will continue to put their own team first, and might have Carnegie as their second team if at all. There isn't a generation of kids who have grown up watching Carnegie first and foremost, and supporting them.

In a way, it suffers from the same issues that dogged the likes of Crusaders in SL. It's a team dropped into an area where there is some interest in the game, but with no great attachment to the people around it. The Yorkshire rebranding is a farce, IMO. You're not going to get loads of fans from Hull Ionians, or Pocklington, or Halifax following Carnegie home and away just because they're a Yorkshire team. Why should they? They have no affiliation to it, and a loyalty instead to their own club.

It's like merging Bulls and Halifax, then trying to market it to people in York as "their" team.

The exodus of top flight sides out of London by the way was precipitated by the need to find stadia that were suitable for the professional era. Wasps were based at Sudbury, but moved into Loftus Road when they were bought by Chris Wright (former owner of Chrysalis Records and QPR). The old ground at Sudbury has been redeveloped for housing, and they've since been based at Wycombe. London Irish were at Sunbury on Thames, but moved into the Madejski as tenants because Reading was the nearest place willing to accommodate them, likewise Saracens at Watford.

It's not because Union was looking to spread out of London (although in inner city London schools league has made massive inroads over the last 10-15 years), it's simply because those clubs formerly based in and around London have needed to find stadia suitable for the professional era and have ended up as football club tenants (Saracens apart, who have built their own ground off the back of Nigel Wray's substantial personal wealth),

For much that league may envy union's international setup and media profile, its club game in England is underwritten mostly by the largesse of a small number of wealthy individuals. Derek Richardson at Wasps, Nigel Wray at Saracens, Bruce Craig at Bath, Semore Kurdi at Newcastle (who recently took over Gateshead) are all in their own way "doing a Koukash". Without them and the RFU's ridiculous ban on selecting foreign based players for England, the club game over here would be bereft of star players and signing the likes of Burgess an absolute impossibility.

And that is different to every professional sport in the land because ... ?

Also, what you described as the foundation of the Leeds team is true and applies equally to Newcastle, one made it succeed, one clearly hasn't, its bizarre and even the professionals don't know why - I'll fly a kite here and suggest regional identity, you could dress a tiddlywinks team in black and white and blag some free coverage in The Chronicle and Geordies would turn up to watch them.

He made 12 tackles. 12. I grew up watching & playing RU. I didn't see a game of league until I was 19. I feel I am well qualified to comment.

RU needs to do something about the scrums - as a major way of restarting the game they are a joke. Even at international level it can take 4/5 attempts to complete a scrum. It would also be interesting see what might happen if the scrapped the opportunity to kick directly in to touch from inside your 20 and the mark.

i grew up in wales where union is the game of the people, not allied to public schools, more pit villages (all gone now) the english and scottish teams were more the products of public schools and in the scots case Former pupils teams, i think thats why league nearly worked in wales early 80s the cardiff blue dragons had decent crowds and spicy encounters vs salford and widnes early 80s. working class games both, i.m from pontypridd, before the wru killed the club system a top team with a intimidating ground (sardis road, the house of pain) now a semi pro second tier team while the regions struggle to attract crowds,

not sure ill get chance this weekend as I'm between Whitley Bay & Tynemouth so shall see what happens

ahh good old Wilkinson. Great kicking player but skills with ball in hand left a lot to be desired for me. Think the doctor saw more of him than his tactical coach

I really don't like what has happened to scrums, it should be a way to restart the game with a genuine contest. It's now a method to generate a penalty and potentially points.

There are some things you could do, but non of it really matters while most referees don't understand what is actually happening.

Perhaps if they had differential penalties from scrums and you couldn't kick for goal following and infringement?

I don't really know who the Falcons fans are, but from my experience they are not all NUFC / Toon Tiddlywinks fans. I know maybe 20 football season ticket holders but none who go to the rugby.

Similarly, Gateshead Thunder aren't turning people away and the basketball and ice hockey teams have loyal (but not overflowing) crowds. I think the 'en masse automatic attendance' at the football in Newcastle is based on the stories you were told as a youngster (whether by family members or others) of the older players; you are unconsciously exposed to the history and culture by those around you thus despite your relative youth you have a longer history in a sense because you know about the players that were long-retired before you were born!

Newcastle does have its more well-off areas with bigger houses and because it is noticeably cheaper there even in contrast to Leeds, if you have wealth it will take you further in the North East. I guess I wonder if a decent chunk of RU fans are from the more typically privileged backgrounds for whom RU was the everyday sport.

Has Newcastle ever had RU presence before that?

Just to be pedantic & in the interests of accuracy, you've been on here Toulon.

Weren't the Falcons effectively just Gosforth, but rebranded with the Hall family money behind them in the outset?

John Hall was attempting to create a Newcastle 'brand' across different sports in the area - I was only about 9-10 at the time but remember it being on the local news - he bought and rebranded Gosforth Rugby as the Newcastle Falcons in 1996 and had done the same with the Durham Wasps in 95 which I was devastated about as I had recently got in to hockey and being from Durham, the ice hockey team was something everyone was proud of.

Anyway, he took over and rebranded Gosforth Rugby and Durham ice hockey as the Newcastle Falcons and Cobras respectively.

He did a lot of good and boosted the profile and success of sport in the North East through almost tying it up together as 'different branches of the same tree' though the Wasps in particular were too famous and I think he would have been better just investing in them to keep them solvent.

'Tales from a north-eastern boy'; coming to your local book store in time for Christmas 2014!

Wasn't there a BBL Basketball team as well, Newcastle Eagles?

Yeah there was and is the Eagles as well. I decided not to mention them for fear of becoming too detailed in my reply, but he took over / invested in them as well. They were already in Newcastle though. As were Newcastle United, obviously.