Was that the ruling? If so was it correct?

At what point was Hardaker deemed to have lost possession? IMO it was only after the ball had touched the try-line with Hardaker still in contact and at no point prior to that had he lost contact.

The point i was making last night at the game was that had Hardaker been attacking and had grounded the ball on the line its a try the opposition cant knock the ball loose (knees in??) then pick it up and roll over with it can they??
For me the ball was grounded whilst the defender was in contact with ZH which imo deems the play dead.

Hardaker knocked on, simples

Poor

Glad we weren't playing Wigan last night.Would like to hear mcds thoughts on squad rotation and same predictable tactics instead of one word answers when interviewed .seems sky are scared of upsetting him .

If we were being very micro-analytical, I thought Makinson nudged the ball forward (with his knees, but definitely while playing at it) into the other Saints player, who was in front of him. The other Saints player didn't deliberatley play at it. So was he offside?

I ask this in a "You're the ref" quiz game spirit, because I thought the outcome was about what everyone deserved.

As for the knock on, I thought Hardaker first grounded the ball over the line, so I think the tackle was complete. He then lost it. If you lose the ball in the act of playing it (so while the ball is dead) can the other team pick it up and score? I've never seen play on in that situation, but I'm not sure what the actual rules are...

Again, lest I be accused of clutching at straws, I'm not a fan of too much micro-analysis in these things. In anything approaching normal speed Hardaker reached, lost the ball in the tackle and Makinson picked it up nad scored. I'm not convinced there would have been any justice in a disallowed try. Which sort of highlights why I'm not a fan of too much use of the video ref.

Another question - has anyone ever done a proper controlled trial of the technology, i.e. got the ref to make the call on the field and independently had a video review of each decision? How often is the outcome different? I harbour suspicions that it might be one of those things that's less incredibly useful than people think.

At the end of the day we started really well and for the first 20 mins or so it looked like we would win by a massive scoreline so to lose is a massive disappointment.

I too was stood near some proper "coaches" who seemed to know every single rule without actually knowing any. As much as I love the Southstand there are some numpties who seem to be the loudest fans there. For instance one of the clowns blamed everything on Clarkson, even right to the end when there was only him chasing and tackling. When I asked if Zak should be dropped for his errors he looked at me stupidly as if he hadn't done anything wrong.

For me the team looked very jaded after 30 mins, I regularly pointed out players who were stood with hands on knees trying to catch their breath. Delaney (worryingly) seemed to be the worst culprit. I know he is playing with only one shoulder but shouldn't affect his general fitness.

As for the Mac bashing, I am at a loss to explain. Most Rhinos fans seem not to like him but his record is unbelievable. First league loss in nine games, should be second if it wasn't for games in hand... what do people want. Sick of it. I remember the dark days when we could not win a thing. Lets get behind the team instead of constantly bashing them. Yes there were even boos in the Southstand last night. Ridiculous.

Could be worse, we could be Salford.........

My only question on the video ref decision is it the effort by Hardaker would have been at the other end would it have been a try? If it would then I would expect tackle complete in the scenario we saw and Leeds play the ball...

It was Anthony Laffranchi that scored but what would be gained if I pointed that out. Changes nothing so I won't even mention it.

Agreed in normal speed Hardaker got what he deserved and had the video referee not been present I'd have expected the try to be awarded but I'll ask again, if the ball touches the line with Hardaker still in contact and never having lost contact has he grounded the ball in goal? It's no different IMO to the recent Bailey score at Odsal which was given.

The line belongs to the in-goal area and for a try to be scored it only has to touch any part of it, is it any different when a defender is trying to clear his line? I didn't think it was but as I always say in these situations I've never studied the rules in my life, preferring instead to concentrate only on the current refereeing interpretations - that is when they act with consistency.

In the past we've had players such as Webb inadvertently touching the ball down behind the line at the JJB stadium but because he was viewed by the video referee as trying to knock the ball dead it's been ruled as play-on and a Wigan score as they followed up ..... to the point now where had let's say for arguments sake Hardaker fallen over in goal with no St Helens player in the Leeds half of the field, the ball inadvertently ie not intentionally hitting the ground after the player slips on the greasy surface that ball is now being deemed a deliberate grounding in-goal resulting in a drop out re-start. I doubt the rules covering these examples had been re-written in the intervening period - but the referee's interpretation of events has changed.

I've tweeted the refs for you... Although its a bit of a shorthand version.

I personally thought it was a tough decision on Hardaker. Thought it should of still been a drop out. However He should of played saftey first.

Thought You looked tired last night although Delaney was outstanding considering.

And we did!

I don`t buy into this we said the same thing the past 2 years statement.
Whilst we might well have said it the fact remains we were poor again last night as we were the week before.
We have been moaning about our performances over the last few years now.
It is a miracle we turn up for 4 or 5 games at the end of the season and all is forgotten.
Don`t get me wrong I love winning the GF but another year on and we are no better in the weekly rounds.
The so called playmakers are doing nothing whatsoever.
Even the Worlds Best Player is not converting all his kicks which was his strong point, not sure he has made a break yet this year either. and as for the Worlds Best Winger well I bet the Ozzies are shatting themselves at the thought.
Burrow has been found out so why drop McShane?
At best Burrow should be on the bench.
Put Sinfield back in at LF and let Sutcliffe have a run at SO.
McGuire is your typical "i used to be good" and now I am nowhere near that standard so I will get niggly to cover up my deficiencies.
Vickery tried his best but has no pace and no grunt so why play him.
At least Keinhorst has a little more pace and can tackle well enough.
Delaney with a crocked shoulder and clearly unfit was our best forward which says something.
JJB does the odd good thing but his defence was poor for a so called Engalnd International.
Roll on Wigan on Sunday.

I think Barrie McD said something that may be relevant yesterday, he said that at the start of his career he'd played for Oldham where the crowd appreciated you if you played your heart out for 80 mins, it didn't matter if they lost only that you had given them 100%.

Then he went to Wigan where the only important thing was that you annihilated the opposition every week, they didn't care about effort as long as you had a clear 20 point margin or more at the final whistle.

He also said that when he gets "supporters" giving him an earful about how everything is wrong and they know exactly what they'd do if they were in charge he will look them in the eye, nod as if interested, then thank them for their opinion and walk away without giving it a second thought.



I think that some Leeds supporters would make ace Wigan supporters.

I would never boo my team or the coach but you don't have to love the coach to support your team or have an opinion on his ability.I don't rate him and think the success we have enjoyed in recent seasons are the fruit of previous coaches .his continued policy of keeping playing his favourites regardless of form will lead to a fractured dressing room if it isn't already.

Some of our senior players have earned the right to have time to play themselves back to form rather than being dropped, but I don't know how he can look at the last month or so of play and decide "you know what, the problem is McShane".