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FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > 'Tackle Homophobia'
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Quote: kirkstaller "I'm not saying that it would be easy, but I believe in living by the Bible. That's the way it is.'"


Care to let us know where in the bible same-sex relationships are condemned?

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Quote: kirkstaller "I really didn't want to get dragged into this, but please, let me clarify my position.

I'm not saying being gay is a choice. I do not doubt that gay people feel very real, natural urges towards people of the same sex. What I believe is that God has made it clear that such relations are sinful and that gay people should refrain from acting on their urges, perhaps in the same way someone should abstain from sex before marriage.

I'm not saying that it would be easy, but I believe in living by the Bible. That's the way it is.

I really didn't want to get bogged down in theology, I just wanted to make the point that you cannot change your race or disability, but you can choose to refrain from homosexual acts (which, as pointed out earlier, is the sin, not the 'orientation').'"


There was a thread regarding Racism in general on here a season or two back, which was a fairly interesting read, and this could be a similar thread. There wont be too many people on here brave enough to offer a different perspective to the anti homophobia line with any sort of application like you have done already, so if this thread picks up into something interesting, i hope you make yourself a part of it.

For my money, please read Norman Stanley Fletchers previous post.

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Quote: kirkstaller "I wouldn't equate racism and disability discrimination with 'homophobia'. The former are completely irrational - racism involves treating people differently due to something as arbitrary as skin colour, and discriminating on the basis of disability is just mean-spirited, disabled people cannot help their condition.

Heck, perhaps my religious beliefs have helped shape this view, but my disapproval of homosexual behaviour forms part of my overall attitude towards sexual morality. There is a big difference between arbitrary prejudice such as racism and disapproval of an individual's sexual behaviour.

Don't get me wrong though, no one deserves to be bullied, harassed or worse because they are gay.'"
I cant see that judging someone for the colour of their skin is any more arbitrary than judging someone for where they put their willy.
Neither seem to be a good indicator of the quality of that person in my experience.

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Quote: bewildered "I think it’s a great idea for two reasons. The first reason is its great to see a big club promoting that homophobia is not good. I remember working with a lad that was out but daren't come out at work because he didn’t know how his colleagues would treat him. It’s a bloody disgrace when someone feels afraid to be themselves. Hopefully Leeds can raise awareness as the government tackles racism and disability discrimination on all fronts but this issue always seems to be third or forth in line.

From a purely business and financial view which is very naive but we are a business, there is a lot of money to be made from the pink pound. There is a large gay community in Leeds and it'd be great if they were encouraged to come to the game.'"


I fully understand and agree with what you are saying, although your final comment, I find a little bazar. There are many Leeds Rhinos fans who happen to be LGBT...

Ronnie Rhino has attended Leeds Pride for the last few years, the largest event in the City Centre with 23,000 people attending for one day!


Quote: bewildered "Hopefully they'll get Miss Orry to take over the match day microphone duties to introduce the teams and that. She's absolutely fantastic down at Queens Court I never had you down as a QC type of guy... more The Viaduct or The Bridge...

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Don't you just hate Religion and its illogical beliefs. Who is this god fellow anyway ? What choice has he given to millions of hindus and countless other belevers in other gods indoctrinated purely through an accident of birth ? Why did he happily allow beliefs in many gods prior to making his appearance in judiasm if it is such a sin ? Why is he so indiscriminate in his punishments when supposedly such a supreme being ? You could say he is a bit of a devil really. Who created him then ? Bit useless of a supreme all powerful being to allow competition to thrive. Indeed who created god ? And if we were created in his image why the hell has he got sinuses that drain upwards ? Great design that one. Complements the human birth ( why did he not make us marsupials ? ) and the wasp that lays its eggs inside live prey right good. Lovely. How do you know the hindus are wrong ? The maoris ? The incas ? The jehovah witnesses ? The bluddy druids ? You don't .. Nobody does. Stop wasting your life. Atheism rules.
The bible was written by men at a time of relative scientific ignorance. Nothing more. Ditto the koran. Do muslims ever question how they would obey ramadam if they lived well inside the arctic circle? I am not into gay love myself but if two consenting adults want to indulge so be it.

I believe it's a sin to call it a sin icon_smile.gif ..... And my god is better than your god.

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... And another thing ..give me two consenting adults anytime over a jerk who uses the " respectable " cloak of religion to justify impregnating multiple young girls barely into puberty as his divinely endorsed polygamised right... . Or those that fly innocent children into American skyscrapers carrying out god's pretty crude will.

Thing is though, as unpalatable as it to all ? of us here, it is just as likely that one of these gods might be the true god as much as we might want to believe otherwise. We all believe what we want to believe, or what is indoctrinated into us...nobody ( not even me ) can state unequivocably they are right.
Hedge your bets anyone ? Believe in all gods just to be on the safe side. That's a tricky one though. Think I might just go for worshiping the creator of our creator ...and all the other creators.... She ? must be something special. Unless she was also created ......? In which case....

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Anyway - what does this entail? What did the Eagles do as part of this campaign?

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Quote: ryano "Anyway - what does this entail? What did the Eagles do as part of this campaign?'"


You get to wear a shirt for one game of the season, the press come and take photos, get a quote from Elton John - and then the rest of the world continues on its merry way.

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Quote: kirkstaller "I really didn't want to get dragged into this, but please, let me clarify my position.

I'm not saying being gay is a choice. I do not doubt that gay people feel very real, natural urges towards people of the same sex. What I believe is that God has made it clear that such relations are sinful and that gay people should refrain from acting on their urges, perhaps in the same way someone should abstain from sex before marriage.

I'm not saying that it would be easy, but I believe in living by the Bible. That's the way it is.

I really didn't want to get bogged down in theology, I just wanted to make the point that you cannot change your race or disability, but you can choose to refrain from homosexual acts (which, as pointed out earlier, is the sin, not the 'orientation').'"


I applaud your faith and your sincerity and indeed admire it for I know that I could not uphold such blind allegiance to a faith of any description particularly when you consider that the historic base of all religion is control of the population, hence its keen adoption by royalty down through the ages especially when being royal was putting yourself in a very shaky position indeed, theres nothing quite like declaring yourself as the representative of a God to maintain your position in the hierarchy.

I would however question your last paragraph as it seems to be constructed in a convenient way for you to be critical of homosexuality while having some sort of logical structure to your belief.

If its true that you cannot change race or disability (which patently it is) and you accept that homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice (which you do), then how can and why should homosexuals be expected to refrain from sexual contact for the whole of their lives, and its not just christianity who treat homosexual physical contact in this discriminatory way.

The "its not natural" argument doesn't hold any water because its perfectly natural in the "natural" world amongst all animal species, so there is another reason for wanting to bar homosexual contact isn't there ?

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Quote: McLaren_Field "
The "its not natural" argument doesn't hold any water because its perfectly natural in the "natural" world amongst all animal species, so there is another reason for wanting to bar homosexual contact isn't there ?'"



Ah, so you base your arguement on the fact that chimps do it, ergo we as part of the animal kingdom should also embrace sodomy? I'm sure you are aware that gang rape, murder and cannibilism are also part of the chimps lifestyle, should we also accept that as "natural" behaviour as well? Life in Horsforth has certainly changed over the last 30 years!

Why not simply accept, that there is a large swath of the population who do not really care what the gay people do in the persuit of their personal happiness, but would simply prefer that they get on with it, without constantly attempting to justify their inclinations, or by belittling others beliefs? Live and let live Mcf. Until it gets made compulsory....

And if we're going to to persue the pink pound as part of a marketing ploy, can I make a plea to The Management to have them allocated their own part of the ground. The last thing I want, is to be sat in the northstand with my view of the pitch obscurred by row upon row of Boy George hat wearing types, ooohing and aaahing everytime Ryan hall zooms by.

G1
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Oh come on Billy, get out of the closet. icon_cool.gif

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Quote: BillyRhino "Ah, so you base your arguement on the fact that chimps do it, ergo we as part of the animal kingdom should also embrace sodomy? I'm sure you are aware that gang rape, murder and cannibilism are also part of the chimps lifestyle, should we also accept that as "natural" behaviour as well? Life in Horsforth has certainly changed over the last 30 years!

Why not simply accept, that there is a large swath of the population who do not really care what the gay people do in the persuit of their personal happiness, but would simply prefer that they get on with it, without constantly attempting to justify their inclinations, or by belittling others beliefs? Live and let live Mcf. Until it gets made compulsory....

And if we're going to to persue the pink pound as part of a marketing ploy, can I make a plea to The Management to have them allocated their own part of the ground. The last thing I want, is to be sat in the northstand with my view of the pitch obscurred by row upon row of Boy George hat wearing types, ooohing and aaahing everytime Ryan hall zooms by.'"


icon_lol.gif

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Quote: kirkstaller "I'd take issue with that and say that most Christians I know believe that such behaviour [iis[/i natural, in the sense that mankind is naturally susceptible to sin. I certainly consider homosexual 'acts' to be on a par with other immoralities such as sex outside of marriage, sins whereby man submits to temptation.

I don't want to get bogged down in the whole 'gay debate', but I thought it was important to make the distinction between things you cannot change (race, disability) and things you can change with the help of the Holy Spirit (homosexual inclinations).

My ten bobs worth.'"


You do know your avatar was gay don't you? icon_surprised.gifops:

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Quote: Juan Cornetto "You do know your avatar was gay don't you?
Yes, Minister icon_wink.gif

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Quote: McLaren_Field "I would however question your last paragraph as it seems to be constructed in a convenient way for you to be critical of homosexuality while having some sort of logical structure to your belief.

If its true that you cannot change race or disability (which patently it is) and you accept that homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice (which you do), then how can and why should homosexuals be expected to refrain from sexual contact for the whole of their lives, and its not just christianity who treat homosexual physical contact in this discriminatory way.'"


The difference is that I believe that homosexual activity is sinful, not the inclination. You can't act black, or Asian, or brain damaged, but you can knowingly choose to engage in homosexual relations, which is what Christians have a problem with. Not everyone feels this way of course, I accept that, but that is the Christian position.

The greatest swindle of the last century is the elevation of homosexuality to parity with heterosexual marriage. I believe that homosexuality is not an equal sexual 'orientation' and that it ought to be classed as a sexual immorality.

Of course I should reiterate that no gay person deserves to be bullied, threatened or hurt because of how they feel. "Hate the sin, not the sinner" is such a cliche but it is very true. I will therefore stand up for my right to tell such people what I think is best for them - after all, that's what the Bible tells us to do.

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