Not down one particular side though. Our right centre position was like a gate blowing in the wind in the 08 gf luckily we were able to fix it.

From what I remember of the 08 GF, in the first half we were getting broken down the middle not out wide, and weren't Saints tries in the second half down our left hand defence?

You could say it changed the flow of the game, maybe it did, or maybe something else did. Its hard to tell without looking at the DVD a number of times to see what other events happened.

Maybe Lauiti'iti coming on, or Scruton coming on, or Cunningham going off or any number of other situations on the pitch could have turned it around.

Also, who is to say that it was Ablett being removed from the centres that changed the game, rather than Ellis being moved from second row?

ok, I am being fecicious but this game is not black and white. the truth is that it was a tactic that had been used for most5 of the season to swap ellis and ablett around. You could say that JJB wasn't good enough becuase when Ali replaced him in the 2007 GF it changed the game

As I said earlier, who gives a poop? we won it does not matter.

All I said he was removed from the centre position because we were getting over run and replaced with Ellis in there, and the game changed. That was in oppossition to the statement that we won a GF with Ablett at centre.

However, once again I do dissagree wtih your last point about most of the season swapping Ellis and Ablett around.

Who played centre agains Wigan the week before the GF, who played against Sains in Play off, who played against Wakey before that? who played Wigan away before that? who played against the bulls before that?

The games before that Toopi played centre, been back from injury. He was rushed back because before that Ellis was used at Centre and to be honest that turned into quite a nightmare.

The fact is that Ablett had the centre position his own position starting the GF and the previous 5 games before that. Yet Inside 15 minutes of the GF where we were slightly over run this is changed.

I can't back it up, but I recall from the games I watched that ellis and ablett regularly swapped positions mid-game. In temrs of facts to back that up, I doubt you'll find any that prove it either way.

Also what do you define slightly over-run as? Is it that Ablett was slightly over-run? or the team was? If it was the team then I would say that no one player is particularly at fault. Of course the coach knowing best saw this and changed things about. Ellis & Ablett may have swapped at that time. Ali may well have come off the bench and added so go forward, solid defence or unpredictability.

Also, was it Ablett moving from centre of ellis moving from the pack which improved us? If we were getting overrun then a change in the pack is more likely to change the flow of the game at that stage

Everyone knows that Ablett and Ellis were interchanged at centre whenever they were both fit. Ellis spoke about it, the coach spoke about it and it was discussed at length on here most of the year ( the view of some of us was that it wasn't working - especially as we were rotating Smith and Hall as well). However, Ablett was not replaced at right centre by Ellis in the GF. He was replaced by Senior. The fact that Ellis and Ablett intrchanged during the whole game at centre is irrelevent to the point. DISA is wrong - and clearly didn't watch or can't remember the match.
That was a tactical shrewd move to counter an attacking pattern Saints came up with. The fact we did this makes me think that the coaching staff and players at Leeds were well prepared for it. Oh, and by the way we won the GF with Ablett in the centres and Senior and Ellis. Just like we won the GF with Ali, Ellis, JJB and Ablett in the second row.

Hooray. Hooray. Hooray.

A modicum of sense.

DISA, don't worry about the personal abuse. I won't report you for it. I am not sensitive at all. You'd have to be a complete lifeless turd to cry to a mod about what someone says about you on here.

However, I am going to use it as an excuse for a cheap shot.......

Are you sure you didn't see Phil Daly shoring up our right centre in the Grand Final?

Not dissagreeing earlier in season, and even mid season. But it didn't happen in those games prior to the GF.



Again I am not dissagreeing with you. I am not critisizing Ablett, and nor have I done on eithe post on this thread.

I repeat again. We were getting over run in that first quarter of the first half, and we changed things by putting Ablett to second row and Ellis to centre.

Whether we won the GF because of either change In the game I dont really give a poop. But we did not win a GF with Ablett at Centre. We won a GF because of the changes made.

we turned a GF round after this point, doesn't mean that the win was because of it, or even contributed. that is opinion.

Fair enough then. But the only fact then is that we won a GF when Ablett was taken away from the centre position, there it goes against what was said.]

true. we Also won a GF when Ellis was taken away from the pack

Like we had done all year? Yes?

Where did Senior move to and where was Ellis - left or right?

BTW, all season long Ablett did not put on as appalling a defensive display as Ellis did in the CC Semi.

Not sure where that takes the discussion or what the relevance is but there you go.

Leeds won a GF with Ablett starting at right centre appears to be the only facts confirmed here.

thank you