Trophies are not an indication of success.

Belter!

That is more than a little unfair imo, in that he won more trophies than any of his predecessors with those greats who were past their peak, and he also has not been backed in the recruitment stakes to anything like the degree of those other coaches (that has come home to roost now with the shocking state of our back up squad players). Has he past his sell by date now? without a doubt. But what he achieved 2011-2015 was exceptional. sadly, Mac's inability to realise he had run his race at the end of 2015 when he had reached everest (winning the treble) and had his right arm severed at the top (losing Sinfield and Peacock) now means he is probably going to be remembered as much by many as the coach who took Leeds backwards as much as for those achievements which i find quite sad TBH.

I will repeat what I said again, "he would take this club backwards". That is what was said, that is exactly what he has done. It isn't unfair in the slightest, he was the problem. When I talk club, I wasn't just referring to the first team. Our problems started with the changes he put in place with the academy. People can not just look to blame Hetherington on the squad (although he is a part of the problem), McDermott was heavily involved, but more so on the production line which was under his control. It is that lack of succession now, which is coming back to haunt us, and which you are reffering to as poor recruitment. The likes of Galloway and Segayaro were on just as much as the players in previous years, along with the massive contracts of Hall and Watkins just like players in the dominant period.

Things don't last for ever mate. we are not always, if ever again going to get young players of the calibre of the ones that went before all at once. I'm not saying McDermott didn't have any kind of say in the youth set up, and i aren't going to pretend i am ITK, all i see is what is on display at first team level, and as far as that goes i'm very happy with his job 2011-2015.

Out of interest, How many great juniors came from the set up between 2004 and 2011 when McDermott took over? in reality we had a great once in a generation batch from the 1998- 2002 period which three coaches manged to dine out on, but nothing exceptional since so to lay that all at the door of McDermott i find quite laughable to be fair.

Not without the input of a Doug Laughton and Dean Bell we aren't.


Not much at all since Doug Laughton and Dean Bell.

pretty much yep.

I am sorry, but this is where we massively differ. Certain players are near to a once in a generation, a batch of players is most certainly not. The players we had then are nothing overly special compared to what we have continued to have at junior level since, except for Sinfield, and to a degree Watkins. We have had the players, but the whole academy concept since he took over has been shocking for a club of our size and standing. Our eyes were off the ball by not continuing the massively successful approach instigated by Powell, and others before him. This is the major reason we are where we are today.

Sinfield, Diskin, JJB, Ward, Walker, Burrow, McGuire, Carvell, Calderwood, Bailey and Mathers

all from that batch and all international standard players at one time or another i believe (of course some contributed to the club more than others but they were all products of our youth system during that period) so yes, i would say these are more than run of the mill players and it's incredibly unusual to see so many high quality players come through at once.

So, infact our eye has probably been 'off the ball' for well over a decade now and should not lie solely at the door of McDermott, far from it imo.like you say we obviously massively differ in our thinking, which is fair enough so will leave it at that

I am still dissagreeing with you mate. What you are looking at is what they achieved, not where they came from, which is the point here. They acheived it because of the development. JJB, Diskin, Carvell, Calderwood, Bailey, Mathers, you could pick many under 15 game in the Yorkshire Junior League alone this weekend at random, and you will find players there equal at same age. Go to the top teams, and you will find quite a few better than McGuire and Burrow. It is all about how they kick on from there. In them days, the focus was to do exactly that, but it hasn't been in any manner over the last few years.

174 pages since July 10 2011 of fans wanting the coach sacked.

Unbelievable.

Sad, but a pretty good read all the same.
I especially like many of the posts in 2011 & 2012 which go quite some way to explaining the sheer bitterness that some posters display on an almost daily basis.

Here's a perfect example of the bitterness mentioned in my previous post.



Bitterness aside... if Mac was to stay, how could he prove himself to you Sal?
What would have to happen this year or even next if he's still here?