Don't fully understand the view on Fox and Cook to be honest. They have been there a few years now. Surely someone could have realised long before now if they were not up to it. I know Fox from working with Oulton previously, as does Seth, and I would certainly disagree with anyone questioning his ability, because he was always a damn good coach from what I saw. Of course that doesn't make him professional club standard. I would suggest it possibly might be more to do with the apparent dry up of talent coming through the Oulton club over last couple of years, and therefore no need for the influence.

Scrimshaw was only really ever took on to form that partnership with the Siddal club to try and get the best players at the club. As I said the other year when they took him on, it was a shame their number one target throughout it all was missed out on.

Think you have hit the nail on the head Gotcha I don’t know or care about Fox and cook?? they have gone but for Marty to say it puts the 16s under the pump for me is way off ?? I’m told fox and cook should have been removed years back but because both were ‘in' with people at the club they stayed .Kevs come in will have observed at all levels and he’s made the decision he has regarding both their futures at the club i think that puts within all doubt that they weren't good enough to coach in a professional environment. (We must speak to different people at Oulton in ref to mr Fox’s coaching ability) but it’s done they have gone by due diligence I’d like to think Kev and the club would do things correctly and im sure if Butterill wasn't good enough he would have gone? . Scrimshaw was in to get Holroyd not smithies . 72 tackles is brilliant really is but didn’t he only make something like 34 meters in 14 carries? Great player though but you can’t always get them all(and would he have developed in our current first team and academy set up?) . Big off season at all levels I’m sure the he said she said will die down shortly once announcements are made .

Seth on here would be the best to comment on coaching ability, and especially on Fox. To be honest never understand why a professional club never made a move for Seth, no kidding probably the best coach I saw at junior level.

I can assure you with absolute complete confidence that Leeds number one target a few years back was Smithies. They wanted Holroyd aswell, but Smithies was way above the rest in that Siddall team. He was always going to be a superstar. The same thing happened with the Kippax lot they went for, and number one target was Longstaff who again Wigan beat us to. Unfortunately for that lad, and only time will tell, but he then made the mistake of falling for Warringtons money and turned his back on Wigan. See what happens there.

You probably know better than me Gotcha i stand on a hill speaking to current and ex players /parents and the odd current staff. Rate smithies but i also rate Holroyd and at this present time you would say Wigan got the better deal. marathon not a sprint though and im sure if big Tom can stay injury free he will be aware of the publicity Morgan is gaining and be looking to get a slice of it himself. Big year for him if they can get his development right. (key for me in all of this at academy level the word development because i dont think its being done right) time will tell. Good chat great we all have so many takes on the subject.

Always nice to hear such comments thanks Gotcha.

Steve’s a good coach, and a great bloke, he always created a good professional rapport with his players and the one thing that was always apparent is his keenness to learn. He seemed to always ‘fit’ with the hierarchy at Leeds which is why I’m surprised. On Dan, I knew him a lot of years ago through working at his school and Leeds SA, he’s been involved for many years, again great guy but know little of his coaching in recent years.

I entered the world of coaching initially to develop the career I have and though I spent many years being involved in the Service Area, scholarships (including Rhinos 14s school of excellence as it was for a year) and Yorkshire, I never felt that I fitted with the hierarchy that was in place back then. I did have a tentative conversation about getting involved again a number of years ago but my passion was with grass roots (where I feel it’s needed most) and my team at Oulton.

The environment at Leeds never quite sat well with me, many seemed to enjoy the kudos of wearing the badge and the ego that brought a little too much, I couldn’t care for all that personally.

At no point have i said that because Fox, Cook and Scrimshaw have gone will the scholarship be under more scrutiny as TomTom claims however due to the fact that Sinfield will be watching most training sessions and matches of the 16s its fair to expect thar team will come under more scrutiny.

With regards to Steve Fox he always came across as a nice guy and as been around the club awhile but for sone reason i akways assumed he was involved on a voluntary basis. My comment waa based on what i have been told.

Be interesting to see if any coaches come in to replace the departing coaches.

I’m sure it will all work out Marty like I posted earlier I’m sure the club will have spent this season watching and making decisions on players coaches and the programs . Slowly decisions are being made by the the hierarchy . I can only comment on Mr Fox and Mr Cooks coaching ability based on the people I spoke to about their release all of which were not overly complimentary, that aside those people are not the ones that decided their fate. I for one like you look forward to seeing who comes in,whoever it is the club feel it’s an improvement on the departed. Just like with the first team we as fans have to trust their judgement . Everyone will be under scrutiny Marty that’s the nature of working in professional sport and might be something that the club has lacked during the last 4-5 years?

I totally agree.

Looking in from the outside it appears that Wigan have an academy that supports a culture of locating and developing the best and communicates effectively with those youngsters in the systems what is required to be successful within the environment i.e. developing themselves both on and off the field in other words commitment.

At Leeds it seems they allow the players to simply toss it off apart from two training sessions a week - no structure no culture of continuous improvement and coaches that seem incapable of developing talent - Cameron Smith was supposed to be a once in a generation player now looks Championship at best, Oledzki stalled, Holroyd looked a great prospect but it appears he lacks the dedication of a Smithies. Not much else on the horizon if the clammer to sign mature average professionals such as Lunt, Donaldson, Albert etc is an indication.

Leeds have brought through one player - Newman - in a year of dire standards, Wigan who were equally as bad as Leeds first half of the season have brought 3/4 quality youngsters

Until Leeds adopt a more professional approach to the coaching set and appoint coaches because of their ability rather than either they were ex players e.g. Burrow, Wainhouse, mates e.g. Agar, coaches because they think it will give them an in to a successful junior set up at an amateur club etc.

Ryan Carr is a perfect example of what is needed a professional coach with a professional attitude - I would scrap the lot and start again and only employ good quality Aussie coaches.

Like Furner.

Like Murray, like McClennan, Like Tony Smith I would suggest Leeds' success with foreign coaches has been pretty positive. Perhaps if Furner had been free from interference for above he could have done a better job. No wonder McDermott did a runner soon as the changes were going to made.

It's not as simple as that, is it? If all the Golden Generation were simply shown the door all and sundry (media, fans, ex-players) would be complaining that Leeds are failing to reap the benefits of channelling so much valuable experience back into coaching. What's wrong with Leeds rewarding loyalty to hard-working professionals?

That said, I get what you are saying, and a balance needs to be struck. Personally I have no idea from the outside looking in whether the correct decisions are being made. Where's the evidence that x and y appointments have been made to create jobs for mates as opposed to appointing the right person for the job? In a team threatened by relegation it's hardly a surprise we've blooded fewer youngsters than teams making the play-offs, but I'd expect this to change next season.

No point moaning about not having an Aissie cosch. Agar was only appounted a fortnight ago so hes going nowhere in a hurry.

In recent years I’ve not seen a lot of academy games but have seen more of Wigan than Leeds. What has always struck me was the higher number of staff that were there for wigan. It always seemed to be Paul Johnson and a small army.
Think they have won 9 or 10 of last 12 academy grand finals.
I think the Leeds first team under McD also operated Ona comparative skeleton staff. Nobody was bothered due to the first team success.

The Wigan set up is an old boys club as well. My guess is that Leeds need to put more resources into coaching as a whole, to seek to compete better and bring on young players.