| FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > Referendum and Rugby League |
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| Quote: Juan Cornetto "Even if tarriffs on some goods are applied this will be more than offset by currency fluctuations. Remember a big point of project fear was to say the pound would sink. Well they cannot have it both ways because if there is for example a 5% tarriff applied by the single market and our currency falls by 5% we have lost nothing.'"
Geez, that's some pretty poor understanding of economics right there. |
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| Player Coach | 3813 | No
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| Quote: Jackie brown "Until we all fall out again that is !!'"
No EU nation has taken up arms against each other in the 40 years of the single market. I think that's a pretty positive achievement given what happened before it, and a real reason beyond the economics to vote Remain. |
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| Quote: Seth "https
I saw that this morning. It's very good, but he doesn't have to deal with Juan.
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| Quote: craigizzard "From the posts from xParksider and Jackie Brown above it seems that EU electives are going to be granted mythical new powers if we stay...
And what our fathers and grandfathers were actually fighting for was peace in Europe, something the EU exists to protect.'"
No I don't think EU electives will gain any mythical new powers.. If remain win.
the status quo will remain... But in the future it won't stop them gaining new powers as they see fit.. And I don't want that to happen..
Mps cock enough things up in this country as it is without the Euro adding to our problems.. |
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| Quote: Juan Cornetto "
I do not know how experienced you are in business or exporting but I am sure you will know that you do not need trade deals in order to export and trade with countries as our exports to the USA confirm. In fact the EU trade deals are very much protectionist deals and if we were to leave the EU we would be free from the restrictive tarriffs that the EU places on other countries who do not have a trade deal. So for example once out the UK consumer would be able to buy a Japanese car 10% cheaper or many items of food 18% cheaper'"
Is this not a double edged sword though? If we leave then we are no longer protected by these deals and we will have much more difficulty selling to the EU.
Quote: Juan Cornetto "
Even if tarriffs on some goods are applied this will be more than offset by currency fluctuations. Remember a big point of project fear was to say the pound would sink. Well they cannot have it both ways because if there is for example a 5% tarriff applied by the single market and our currency falls by 5% we have lost nothing.'"
Sorry but I don't understand this at all. Surely our currency falling in value and having a tariff applied to products is a bad thing?
If product A costs 130 Euros then I can buy that for £100 as it stands. Assuming we leave and the Pound becomes the same value as the Euro then I am now paying £130 for the product. But then a 5% tariff is applied to the product making it cost 136.50 Euros in total. I now have to pay £136.50 for this product. |
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| Quote: craigizzard "No EU nation has taken up arms against each other in the 40 years of the single market. I think that's a pretty positive achievement given what happened before it, and a real reason beyond the economics to vote Remain.'"
Good point Craig and I can't argue with that but it's not the main reason why I shall vote to leave.. |
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| Quote: WF Rhino "Is this not a double edged sword though? If we leave then we are no longer protected by these deals and we will have much more difficulty selling to the EU.
Sorry but I don't understand this at all. Surely our currency falling in value and having a tariff applied to products is a bad thing?
If product A costs 130 Euros then I can buy that for £100 as it stands. Assuming we leave and the Pound becomes the same value as the Euro then I am now paying £130 for the product. But then a 5% tariff is applied to the product making it cost 136.50 Euros in total. I now have to pay £136.50 for this product.'"
I think he's talking about export tariffs (or EU tariffs on British goods) and conveniently ignoring the other side of the equation, but even in the context of exports it doesn't make any sense. |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "I'd take the Doctor with the highest mortality rate, lowest ratings, lowest examination rates and worst diagnostic skills over the man selling me crystals every day of every week for ever more.
I'm not sure that 'nobody knows what's going on, all the peoplr who should know what is going on are lying to us so we should isolate ourselves and hope for the best' is a particularly optimistic outlook to be honest.'"
No one is saying the economists are lying. They just have an appaling record of ever getting a prediction right. Why are you ignoring this |
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| Quote: craigizzard "If lining up with Johnson, Gove, Grayling, Patel, Duncan-Smith, Putin, Farage, Nick Griffin, Britain First, Katie Hopkins, Louise Mensch, Toby Young, George Galloway and all the rest of the who's who of Britain's crackpots, oddballs and racists isn't enough for people to reconsider whether they're wise to decide on a "Leave" vote, then the deaf-eared, fact-free propagandist ramblings of Juan should be enough to send them over the edge. Good work, Mr.Cornetto.'"
You seem to spend a lot of time reading these "crackpots" You still have not produced one aurgument for remianing or any facts. Only links to what others say. can you not form your own opinion? |
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Apart from not going to war with each other.
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| Quote: Juan Cornetto "You seem to spend a lot of time reading these "crackpots" You still have not produced one aurgument for remianing or any facts. Only links to what others say. can you not form your own opinion?'"
I only started producing links after YOU asked me to produce links, for all the good that's done. Prior to that and throughout this long thread I have offered plenty of my own opinions and arguments for remaining. You'll find a couple of them (no links) on the last page, and plenty more before that.
Provide opinions, get asked for links. Provide links, get asked for opinions. It's the Juan way.
It really is not worth engaging in dialogue with you any more, other than to let others see what you are.
Still waiting for an example over your 4000+ posts on any subject of where you've admitted you might just have got something wrong. You can start with your tariff argument, if you like. |
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| Quote: Juan Cornetto "No one is saying the economists are lying. They just have an appaling record of ever getting a prediction right. Why are you ignoring this'"
Because it isn't true. It is like saying doctors have an appalling record of saving lives because people still get ill and everyone dies at some point.
Yes they are wrong from time to time, yes often they are dealing with an incomplete picture, and yes they don't operate with 100% certainty, but they are still infinitely better than just hoping for the best. |
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| Quote: craigizzard "I think he's talking about export tariffs (or EU tariffs on British goods) and conveniently ignoring the other side of the equation, but even in the context of exports it doesn't make any sense.'"
Correct, a decrease of 5% and an increase of 5% do not cancel each other out.
For example 100 - 5% = 95
95 + 5% = 99.75
or
100 + 5% = 105
105 - 5% = 99.75 |
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| Quote: Gotcha "You listed no points in the post I quoted. I specifically quoted your comment that the leave campaign has been postive, which is utter nonsense, and that the remain campaign has been project fear.'"
Yes I did list a whole bunch of pointsUndoubtedly Project Fear has been the main thrust of the Remain campaign run by by Cameron and Osborne from the very start. You cannot argue with this. I cannot recall anything positive they have said about staying in the EU, just a catalogue of disasters if we leave be it thousands of pounds less in people's pockets, huge unemployment, massive tax rises, renaging on the pensioners triple lock, back of the queue in making trade deals, increases in food, increases in everthing else, the pound plummeting, stock exchanges in melt down, another European war, huge tarriffs, flying in Obama to issues threats to his closest ally etc etc. Then there has been the coordinated personal attacks on the likes of Boris Johnson.
The official Leave campaign has on the whole been positive and optimistic and more up beat with little fear or personal attacks and no threats.[/i
Quote: Gotcha "
What I do know is what you have put above, is coimplete and utter nonsense. From everything I have read the only fear campaign in this referendum has been from the Leave side. Nothing positive or truthful for that matter has come out of that side, just gimmicks and soundbites that catch attention. I certainly have my issues with Europe and some of the things with the remain side, but they have at the very least laid facts on the table, and stuck to how it works. On that basis, I have no choice, for the sake of my family, and the employees under me to go with what is coming loud and clear in the head, rather than the heart.'"
So like I said please explain why these remain negative comments are accurate and positive and why?
And what are the negative and untruthful things that the Leave campaign have said that you allege?
And do you really believe the remain campaign has not spread fear?
Quote: Gotcha " I was even very cleary in stated I had issues with the remain side and Europe, but whether your biased view is unable to comprehend this or not, the remain campaign have stuck to facts and how it works.
.'"
Care to name those facts? |
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