You should know of course that its a hard core football region but since they moved to Kingston Park they've averaged around the 7000 mark pretty consistently which clearly makes the thing sustainable - like the Rhinos they have always favoured a Friday night game which doesn't help away supporters that much, especially not when most of those supporters have nearly a full days travel to get to you (you don't just pop along the M62 to support a team in RU), but a Friday night in the South Stand at Kingston Park (yes, the South Stand is also the place to be although its behind the posts) is superb, good beer and a hog roast, read it and weep

Give it a go next time you're up there, its on a Metro line not too far out of the city centre and as always they are a friendly bunch.


Oh, I forgot the hot tub, yes you can pay to sit in a hot tub and watch the game, seriously.

Yep, one stop before the airport.

I had the pleasure of watching Jonny Wilkinson return from injury in a home game at Kingston Park, he took one penalty kick after about ten minutes and missed it and then five minutes later got injured again, the substitute who replaced him for the rest of the game kicked every single attempt and played like a man possessed, I think that was when he decided a life in the south of France might be nice, or Nice.

I have always thought Union is better to watch on TV and awful to watch live. As a player and qualified coach I still can't watch a game live just for the game.
However, the spaces and pauses in the game suit TV. The close up TV angles allow you to see what you can't see live.
League is far better to watch live - no contest. But if you add the whole match day experience then it's hard to say. I have had some great days out at big league games, but the best day was me and my 9 year old at Twickenham two years ago for his first international.

Union in this country has issues with ball handling, especially finishing breaks- too easy to go to ground and let someone else make the decision. Most players have no clue what to do if they make a break into open space and support play isn't as good. There is a reason for this, support players in league can afford to overrun the ball carrier if he's tackled, in Union the first man there has to always compete for the ball so support players are not looking to get on the end of a possible offload or break, they are looking to clean out after the ball carrier is tackled. As a result they arrive late - too late to back up a clean break.
The RFU is trying to change the junior game to produce players who are first and foremost ball handlers.

I'd agree with all that, and Twickenham definitely seems to have the "event/experience" thing nailed, which at least partly explains why so many of the people who attend Twickenham games wouldn't go to club games.
I agree on the skills, it's something i think the RFU has been incredibly slow to pick up on. I think they thought that simply turning pro would solve the problem, or maybe they just didn't get why those skills are important until relatively recently. It infuriates me when I see some Union attacking lines where you can just see that the players involved really have little idea what to do. Especially when you see some All Blacks attacks where they prove that you CAN attack "properly".
Unfortunately England (and too many Premiership teams) still seem wedded to the idea of rolling mauls as their "best" way to score a try.

I also think they keep signing the wrong RL players. Burgess might garner some headlines and he'll probably do ok, but I think there are other far better suited players out there.

I'll just repeat that I thoroughly enjoyed playing amateur Union, much more so than League.
Union is far better at developing interest in the sport as a whole, League is much more based around the pro clubs.

I am not surprised that The RU team can't attract crowds bits and it is bits what I've seen at Headingley is awful

One I heard most recently in RU was the fans aiming homophobic abuse at the referee.

Ooooooooh get you.
All very noble that last line if I could believe you or the others defending RU have never criticised a sport that you haven't played and don't have a true appreciation of.

I've not seen any comment on here that's been anything more than a light hearted pi** take so untwist the knickers.

Just a point on the Leeds/Yorkshire Carnegie thing.

It's very much a created entity, formed from the merger of the old Headingley and Roundhay clubs. The problem with that is that there are very few people with any great loyalty to it as an institution, either locally or further afield. Those involved with other clubs at a lower level will continue to put their own team first, and might have Carnegie as their second team if at all. There isn't a generation of kids who have grown up watching Carnegie first and foremost, and supporting them.

In a way, it suffers from the same issues that dogged the likes of Crusaders in SL. It's a team dropped into an area where there is some interest in the game, but with no great attachment to the people around it. The Yorkshire rebranding is a farce, IMO. You're not going to get loads of fans from Hull Ionians, or Pocklington, or Halifax following Carnegie home and away just because they're a Yorkshire team. Why should they? They have no affiliation to it, and a loyalty instead to their own club.

It's like merging Bulls and Halifax, then trying to market it to people in York as "their" team.

The exodus of top flight sides out of London by the way was precipitated by the need to find stadia that were suitable for the professional era. Wasps were based at Sudbury, but moved into Loftus Road when they were bought by Chris Wright (former owner of Chrysalis Records and QPR). The old ground at Sudbury has been redeveloped for housing, and they've since been based at Wycombe. London Irish were at Sunbury on Thames, but moved into the Madejski as tenants because Reading was the nearest place willing to accommodate them, likewise Saracens at Watford.

It's not because Union was looking to spread out of London (although in inner city London schools league has made massive inroads over the last 10-15 years), it's simply because those clubs formerly based in and around London have needed to find stadia suitable for the professional era and have ended up as football club tenants (Saracens apart, who have built their own ground off the back of Nigel Wray's substantial personal wealth),

For much that league may envy union's international setup and media profile, its club game in England is underwritten mostly by the largesse of a small number of wealthy individuals. Derek Richardson at Wasps, Nigel Wray at Saracens, Bruce Craig at Bath, Semore Kurdi at Newcastle (who recently took over Gateshead) are all in their own way "doing a Koukash". Without them and the RFU's ridiculous ban on selecting foreign based players for England, the club game over here would be bereft of star players and signing the likes of Burgess an absolute impossibility.

And that is different to every professional sport in the land because ... ?

Also, what you described as the foundation of the Leeds team is true and applies equally to Newcastle, one made it succeed, one clearly hasn't, its bizarre and even the professionals don't know why - I'll fly a kite here and suggest regional identity, you could dress a tiddlywinks team in black and white and blag some free coverage in The Chronicle and Geordies would turn up to watch them.

He made 12 tackles. 12. I grew up watching & playing RU. I didn't see a game of league until I was 19. I feel I am well qualified to comment.

RU needs to do something about the scrums - as a major way of restarting the game they are a joke. Even at international level it can take 4/5 attempts to complete a scrum. It would also be interesting see what might happen if the scrapped the opportunity to kick directly in to touch from inside your 20 and the mark.

i grew up in wales where union is the game of the people, not allied to public schools, more pit villages (all gone now) the english and scottish teams were more the products of public schools and in the scots case Former pupils teams, i think thats why league nearly worked in wales early 80s the cardiff blue dragons had decent crowds and spicy encounters vs salford and widnes early 80s. working class games both, i.m from pontypridd, before the wru killed the club system a top team with a intimidating ground (sardis road, the house of pain) now a semi pro second tier team while the regions struggle to attract crowds,

not sure ill get chance this weekend as I'm between Whitley Bay & Tynemouth so shall see what happens

ahh good old Wilkinson. Great kicking player but skills with ball in hand left a lot to be desired for me. Think the doctor saw more of him than his tactical coach