Hats off to your commitment to youth rugby by the way Marty. The question for me is about getting the balance in the side right. Too many youngsters in at the same time, you risk getting physically dominated and throwing games. Very, very few 18 year olds can handle mature SL players physically.

With Walker, Newman and Oldedzki all learning, people forget how young they still are. I don’t think we’d want too many more Academy products in the same side as them but we do need to bring 2-3 more through next year somehow.

This is kind of what I’ve been talking about: there is no way this Leeds squad will be at peak next year with the reliance we have on home-grown talent. When these lads are playing toward their full potential in a few years, hopefully different story but this is certainly not a situation with a quick fix.

Going to be fascinating to see which lads step up in pre-season and the friendlies - the opportunity is there for them.

You say we have not given lads a chance over last few years, well that simply is not true, Walker is 19 and first choice Newman the same, oledski 20 Cameron smith 20 all regulars this year. We cannot just throw another 4-5 more teenagers in and say have a go. They need to be brought through more steady. Couple more at a time. Some have been sent out on loan to play open age and they will be ready for 4-6 games next year and one or two may force their way into starting spots,

We give people a chance but they have to earn it and show they are up to it, what none of us see is these lads training and playing in opposed training sessions with the first team, the coachs know who is ready or not not us.

An accusation a fair few Wigan fans used to throw at Wane as although they could see the players develop, there was a feeling that a club of that size should have challenged more than they were doing at various points of his tenure. Mind, they did have to put up with players then being sold just as they were attaining a decent standard.

I agree someone should be asking why !!!

Just wondering as this is a slight thread drift re: youngsters my boy who plays for Folly Lane Under 8's had an away game at Pilkingtons St. Helens today and as we were leaving the Leeds Rhinos team coach was pulling up there anyone know why ? do they use the coach for your youngsters

ladies played at saints

arrr right that explains it cheers

Have we conveniently forgotten Mathers, Lee Smith, hall, sonny, mags, burrow, jkb, ablett, ward, bailey etc... And that's not to mention the huge number that have had to leave Leeds to even get a game and gone on to be great players all thanks to the education they got in the Leeds junior ranks.

We have an extraordinary history of producing talent. People forget that the Winfield era were so good that youngsters couldn't get in because we were so good. Sometimes it's as though people want us to play kids just to prove we have kids to play.

When we were on top all the club's were asking why their kids weren't as good as ours. I despair at times on here.

I've not seen Johnson of late but he reminds me of a young Sinfield in terms of playing like an old man.

Last tiime I saw him he still looked like he needed to develop physically a bit before SL.

Wire would be the last pack I would have picked for him to play but if he does debut I trust we might decide to play some prop forwards as well.

The last thing he needs is to play with a load of Oompa Loompas against hill, cooper, Clark westwood Murdoch masilla and the geezer who leads with his elbow

Also we have 2 young lads in the running for SL young playee of the year this year

The problem is the way the production line faltered for years in the middle. We’ve had it working much better again for a few years now, but it takes a long time to filter through.

Then again you’ll always have peaks and troughs of talent even with a good development system.

I don't think it did falter though Jim.

For a decade we had a squad made up of a huge number of players that came through our academy who were top players, most of which became internationals. We were still producing good players they were just not good enough to get past the academy products we already had in the first team. It's very hard to have a sinfield and mags and then produce two players that are even better.

I agree with that to an extent mate, but can you name me any real success stories since Sutcliffe and Handley until Oledzki/Smith/Walker?

For whatever reason there is a 3-4 (at least) gap from the Academy in terms of successful first team players produced.

Whether it’s just availability of talent, the quality of coaching at the time, the competition getting their act together and beating us to the talent or whatever... it’s about QED by looking at the first team quad now IMO.

Honesty it looks like the club failed to tool up the 3 years BEFORE the Goldens started to retire, and we did it after the wheels predictably fell off - and there we are three years out of four in relegation scraps as a result.

I may be being unkind because I know you don’t just snap your fingers and a Burrow and McGuire appear magically in your academy, but it doesn’t look well managed on the face.

I can see both sides of the argument here and I agree that we didn't have the required quality coming through ahead of time to fill the gaps left by the golden generation as we call them.

Did the club take their eye off the ball, was there a lack of genuine talent or did the talent take one look at the Leeds team and think they wouldn't get a game and choose a different club? Tbh we will never know.

What I would say though is that those that liken producing young players to a conveyor belt are a bit naive. It's not a constant process for any club in any sport. But having had some lean years we look like we have some great potential again. It's now making sure we integrate them in a sensible way.

could be wrong but didnt it all go tits up when the 2 macdermotts start running it?