Depends if South stand or North stand. And I accept doubt on elbow, but ball was clearly over.

Out of interest, those saying we deserved to win, how are you coming to that conclusion? The game is about controlling, and taking opportunities. Widnes controlled that second half. We took the try chances, but didn't manage what needed to be managed, and never looked in control. Our pivots have absolutely no idea what so ever.

Like I said before I do think we got lucky with the Moon try (again in line as I swapped end of the South Stand between halfs) and Golding looked like he bombed it but Thaler allowed play on instead of knock on. Comically looked like he was motioning for the screen before realising it wasn't a TV game.

Lack of direction/composure/leadership whatever you want to call it from the halves. Understandable had it been Sutcliffe and Lilley, unacceptable when it's McGuire & Burrow and it's not a one off.

Thaler was very poor again. Terrible inconsistencies re the ruck. His reputation is falling quicker Boris Johnson's.

True, not for the first time this year I've been left wondering what's happened to him. First half in particular was James Child-esque in his giving of soft and pedantic decisions.

it was a shambles. swopping full back twice? really??? non use of a sub, again. the halves were nowhere to be seen on the last tackle option. time and again a prop had it. sooner macdermott goes the better. he really has lost the plot.
collina, the best football referee in the world for years, was asked if refs you don't see are the best. he replied no, its the ones with the balls to make a last minte big decision are the best.
on that basis thaler failed miserably

I dont think we deserved to win at all but slating Sutty why exactly?
Burrow Mcguire were woeful ,Achurch powder puff Jjb conceding penalties for fun whilst clearly blowing out of his arris so uber coach moves him to prop
Then we have Cuthbertson who again didn't look fit & not one of his panic offloads
went above anyones bootlaces.
Loads of negatives about today & indeed the season Suttcliffe isnt anywere near them imo.

sutty was poor but he needs a regular position. he's a half back trying to learn to play full back. our erstwhile coach started him at full back, switched him to loose forward, then to the halves,then back to full back. no wonder he looked shellshocked

Golding cannot play again. He's had more than enough chances. Rubbish. Why didn't Handley play over Briscoe? Why didn't Keinhorst get on?

On the plus side, Achurch was good.

[list

What? Sutty was doing ok. The Golding cameo at FB was horrendous

[list

What? Sutty was doing ok. The Golding cameo at FB was horrendous

We starting the game well, it was when we made the change with Golding coming on it started to go wrong. He offers nothing and I'm reaching the view some have had that he needs to go as he's not of SL standard.

Which imo is where Mags/Burrow went to pieces the team were setting up for moves & those 2 just started making it up on the back of some awful handling/offloads.

I really don't understand why mcdermott has continued to name players on the bench and not use them in Keinhorst we have a very versatile player who can do a job in the backs and forwards today we could have brought him on and moved Moon to the halves and kept Sutcliffe at full back where he has been playing better rugby lately.

With Zak gone he should play at fullback as he looks more comfortable with more time on the ball and is decent enough defensively that its not an issue, he can move into the halves when certain aspects of is game improve such as kicking and game management
I have no idea why he was moved away from fullback, I assumed we would move briscoe to 9 and goulding to the wing, but we decided to throw the game away instead

As for the criticism, I think he must be shagging Gotcha's misses