Was impressed with McDermotts comments after. He wasn't happy and rightly so. No excuses for some players, and he wasn't mincing his words.

Some posters are afraid of putting inexperienced players in, making all sorts of excuses. A very good Leeds side have been completely outplayed in two of last three matches by teams with a lot of young and inexperienced players in them.

Youth will always beat age for enthusiasm. That is a vital ingredient in any winning team.

TBF to Robbie Ward what other options are they? Would putting Clarkson there again make any difference?

When your ball carriers are being dominated then any hooker will suffer.

It was pretty bad wasn't it? Completely dominated in the forwards and our attack never had any fluency to it. Losing Achurch was a big blow I thought. When he was on he was finding his front regularly with the ball, something we struggled to do all night. Kirke offered close to nothing in attack, and Clarkson and S. Ward struggled to gain any sort of foothold. Must have been a nightmare for R. Ward to try keep up with the pace wire's pack were playing at in the opening 30 or so.

Achurch did ok-worrying if he's out for long. We missed Delaney through the middle and anyone who can't see what he brings to the table must have seen what was missing tonight. I thought that was a great chance for clarkson after playing well last week and defending well at hooker. He blew it though.

We haven't been poor for 4 weeks. We played ok at Cas and against hull both in poor conditions

Ward did absolutely nothing wrong. Also Stevie Ward and Clarkson at least showed the right attitude. It was the players we rely on so much that let is down tonight, well along with the usual suspects.

You've missed the point. Teams like wigan have a nice spread of go forward from a number of forwards, all of whom are at a nice age, very fresh and they spread the workload very well, no one or 2 forwards are significantly relied upon and all are above average at most aspects of the position without being stars.

The first Wire try was from a clear forward pass, that said they wanted it more, had more zip at the play the ball, broke our line on numerous occasions and fully deserved their win. At times we seemed devoid of ideas and looked like it was the first time we'd played together. Quite a few of our players didn't turn up tonight, but tomorrow's another day and you always get games like this each season, the Sky Muppets commentary would suggest we're on the decline but when all said and done we're a point off the top, five in front of the Wire and have a CC quarter final to look forward to which Saints would probably swop their current position for.
Well done Wire the best team won tonight

Not interested in anybody who goes on about questioning "attitude" or "effort". If that team lacked effort and attitude we'd have had 40+ past us. The rare pleasing thing tonight was the scramble in defence even towards the end when the result was gone.

Are some good enough? Possibly not, the usual suspects like Kirke and McGuire will be pointed out on here, but the likes of forum favourites like Watkins and Singleton weren't up to much either tonight but I doubt you'll hear too much thrown their way.

You not happy with McDermott tonight then? He was quite clearly questioning the attitude of certain players tonight, and wasn't shy about it.

I haven't seen anyone question effort though, so not sure why that was brought up.

Brian Mac questioned the attitude of his forwards in his post match interview

How are they fresher? Especially "very fresh", they looked knackered last night. Hasn't Peacock been rested more than any of their props? How old is Singleton, who didn't grasp a chance to turn the game when he came on (the much older Crabtree did for Hudds last night).

Like you say though, none of their props are really stars, unlike Peacock, i'd say that's a weakness not a good thing.

Watkins was recieving the ball with a line of warrington defenders in front of him. Even last night when wigan were getting a shellacking they still managed to play with good attacking structure.

Why oh why can't leeds adopt the same play with the waves of dummy runners creating space for the backs.

Singleton IS better when he starts. Watkins hardly had any DECENT ball so don't know what you are referring to there. Kylie was again good for me....and on present form I would give him another year. Ablett is consistently impressive. Clarkson ...pfft. Stevie Ward is the concern for me....when IS he going to come good?

I liked the way Sutcliffe played on attack...best of the HB's. His reading in defence needs to be improved.

As for Kirke....I give up. It continues to bewilder me as to what anybody sees in him

This is what i'm talking about, people squirming and doggedly arguing the blantantly obvious. Opposition fans can see it as clear as day but most leeds fans just bury their head in the sand.

See what I mean about favourites being offered excuses.