It would probably be better all round if he went to a club willing to pay top dollar for a player who has been one of the game's genuine stars, with Leeds then able to try to perm a winning combination in the threequarters from Smith, Hall, Hardaker, BJB and Watkins. If Senior goes I'd be surprised if Webb left as well without an external replacement, as three of our prospects haven't played a lot of first team.

As much as those 5 have to offer, only Watkins is a centre. Smith does a reasonable job there but its not his 1st choice of position. I therefore hope that if Senior does move on we find a suitable replacement. Long long time since we signed a decent centre.

Don't remember that one unless it's the one Brisbane recalls here

Hull KR were the newly crowned Champions (1983/84) and Leeds went there as lambs to the slaughter with a scratchy looking side containing the likes of Mark Campbell, Gareth Ingham, Andy Sykes, Paul Whitehead and Mark Wilson. Quite incredibly they won 20-16. They followed that Sunday game up with a Tuesday night drubbing at Odsal (4-34) in the final (re-arranged) league match of the season only to return to Craven Park the following Sunday for KR to strike down with great vengeance and furious anger to the tune of 54-0 in the first round of the Premiership which they went on to win. On a personal note we had a cock-up on the transport front (thanks to Wallace Arnold) and got to the game late (10 minutes in - about 15/20 points down) and worse still not a programme in sight to be had.

It took me around five years to find a copy but it felt like winning the lottery when I did even though it was in less than pristine condition and festooned with scorers.



Great game. 82/83 - Alan Smith try in the corner with John Myler waiting for the ball to go dead .... in those conditions, yeah fat chance, well left. Mark Cambbell got the other Leeds try in an unexpected 10-5 win.



You are right about Campbell but the side weren't all that scratchy albeit the underdogs on the day given the opposition.

LeedsSubs:
Pat Mitchell, Paul Whitehead (DNP)

As great a servant Keith has been to the club its time for us to move forward without him and thus an external replacement is a must next season IMO.

Leeds:
Tony Binder
Alan Smith, Neil Hague, Ian Wilkinson, Andrew Smith
John Holmes, Mark Conway
Andy Sykes, David Ward, Keith Rayne
Dave Hesselwood, Des Armitage, Mark Campbell

Tony binder did he play many other games?
alan smith was he 40 by then?
hague was nearly 40 but do you know what his strike rate was compared to grothe when they played on oppposite wings as he seemed to have a purple patch
wilkinson was a full back
andy smith bad hair and hands
hesslewood was a centre
was des armitage a winger
campbell was a winger as was pat mitchell

I would but I've exhausted my Pulp Fiction quote and used my Reggie Perrin (or rather Jimmy Anderson) analogy so I'm spent.

__________



1 - It was Tony Binder's 29th Appearance for the Leeds club. In all he would make 32 while at Headingley. He was known to be a full-back - not a good one but still a full-back if he was anything.

2 - 39. It was his 18th Appearance of the season. Even at that age with no knees to speak of he was still earning the place ahead of Terry Naylor, Mark Massa and Pat Mitchell.

3 - a) Hague was a good ten years the junior party in the right centre/wing partnership (with the aforementioned Alan Smith) and was still short of his 30th year in that game V Widnes. b) Grothe played 16 times for Leeds (15 on the wing + 1 at centre) of those wing appearance his fellow winger was Hunt (7), Hague (6) and Healy (2). Grothe scored 13 of his 14 tries from the wing position at a rate of 0.867 per game, Hague scored 0 from the opposite flank when he partnered in those 'Grothe' games.

4 - Wilkinson also played centre and ocassionally wing as well as full-back. He was not in anyway unfamiliar in the centre position, indeed during that season (1982/83) he started 28 games for Leeds - 26 of those at centre.

5 - Perhaps but he was playing his 33rd game of the season (and he'd play in the final four that followed) and was clearly regarded as a 1st choice Leeds wingman (quite sadly) at the time.

6 - Hesselwood was a carthorse. Centre/second row - meh, the Brett Delaney of his day only a bit quicker.

7 - Des Armitage was an 'A' team back rower. Fairly promising but starved of a 1st grade opportunity at Headingley, similar to a lot of young players around the club at that time.

8 - Correct on both counts. That didn't make it a particularly scratchy side IMO or entirely justify the comparison to the Leeds team selected to face Castleford in June '08 - although that side was also not as weak as some would claim.

cheers
thought hague scored a few but must have been when grothe was not playing & was sure mark massa played that game in 2nd row

do you also have the widnes team that day?

Sure:

Mick Burke
Fred Newton, Eric Hughes, Joe Lydon, John Myler
David Hulme, Andy Gregory
Mike O'Neill, Keith Elwell, Kevin Tamati
Fred Whitfield, Eric Prescott, Mick Adams
Subs:
Les Gorley, Steve O'Neill

cheers , looks a good bit stronger than the leeds one

was discussing @ the weekend how dirty/hard prescott was .

Gorley & tamati were no angels alongwith sorensen and moriarty of those days

My mate used to have a running joke with Eric Prescott, every game he would line up on the dead ball line ready to receive the kick-off he'd holler 'how's the arm Eric ..... still stiff?

It usually elicited a toothless grin in response. Looks like he passed on those 'fighting' qualities to his son Steve although not in the physical sense you understand.

A couple of weeks later Leeds won 12-9 at Wigan in the Premiership, Des Armitage was one sub (who played) but who do you have as the other sub who I don't think got on?

Like you I don't have a name on the unused Leeds substitute at Central Park that day. He would be one of several unknown/unused substitutes in the pre SL days in my post 1978/79 records. However I've just re-read the match report printed in the YEP and while there is no mention there or in the team lists it did reveal an interesting point.

'Fielding 12 of the team hammered 51-2 at Leigh last week.'

The reports after the Leigh game spoke of Kevin Rayne breaking his thumb (definitely out of the Wigan game), Andy Smith stretchered off with a back injury but expected to be fit (and he was) and David Ward having picked up a groin strain struggling to be available and he also missed the following week's defeat at the Boulevard.

That would leave Mark Campbell as the unused sub at Central Park. I'm off now to make the retrospective changes to several spreadsheets.

BINGO!

I had also worked it out as Mark Campbell by elimination, but no confirmation ... until now. You will do for me!

It only took 28 years .....

Coincidence/educated guesswork rather than confirmation but if it makes you happy I'm happy for you.

Was it you who once asked about Phil Holmes playing for Leeds?