I agree. But insulting someone for pointing out the obvious in their flawed argument, is ridiculous.

Challenging peoples opinions is all fine.

You were insulted by him calling you condescending?

Jesus. We stoop to a new level of sensitivity.

Oh diddums. Had your opinion questioned have we?

This is me laughing at you, you poor sensitive fool

Why dont you just admit you weren't paying enough attention despite having a go at others for apparently not doing the same?

To be honest you are a little bit of a non entity for me to be getting into arguments with. But if you want to tell me what I wasn't paying attention at, I dont mind replying.

How about the 2007 GF, we were also over run for the first quarter of that game.

Not down one particular side though. Our right centre position was like a gate blowing in the wind in the 08 gf luckily we were able to fix it.

From what I remember of the 08 GF, in the first half we were getting broken down the middle not out wide, and weren't Saints tries in the second half down our left hand defence?

You could say it changed the flow of the game, maybe it did, or maybe something else did. Its hard to tell without looking at the DVD a number of times to see what other events happened.

Maybe Lauiti'iti coming on, or Scruton coming on, or Cunningham going off or any number of other situations on the pitch could have turned it around.

Also, who is to say that it was Ablett being removed from the centres that changed the game, rather than Ellis being moved from second row?

ok, I am being fecicious but this game is not black and white. the truth is that it was a tactic that had been used for most5 of the season to swap ellis and ablett around. You could say that JJB wasn't good enough becuase when Ali replaced him in the 2007 GF it changed the game

As I said earlier, who gives a poop? we won it does not matter.

All I said he was removed from the centre position because we were getting over run and replaced with Ellis in there, and the game changed. That was in oppossition to the statement that we won a GF with Ablett at centre.

However, once again I do dissagree wtih your last point about most of the season swapping Ellis and Ablett around.

Who played centre agains Wigan the week before the GF, who played against Sains in Play off, who played against Wakey before that? who played Wigan away before that? who played against the bulls before that?

The games before that Toopi played centre, been back from injury. He was rushed back because before that Ellis was used at Centre and to be honest that turned into quite a nightmare.

The fact is that Ablett had the centre position his own position starting the GF and the previous 5 games before that. Yet Inside 15 minutes of the GF where we were slightly over run this is changed.

I can't back it up, but I recall from the games I watched that ellis and ablett regularly swapped positions mid-game. In temrs of facts to back that up, I doubt you'll find any that prove it either way.

Also what do you define slightly over-run as? Is it that Ablett was slightly over-run? or the team was? If it was the team then I would say that no one player is particularly at fault. Of course the coach knowing best saw this and changed things about. Ellis & Ablett may have swapped at that time. Ali may well have come off the bench and added so go forward, solid defence or unpredictability.

Also, was it Ablett moving from centre of ellis moving from the pack which improved us? If we were getting overrun then a change in the pack is more likely to change the flow of the game at that stage