Back to your celebs I see Eddie! At least no mention of Nigel this time



Try looking at the issues and not the personalities you may get a different perspective

From the posts from xParksider and Jackie Brown above it seems that EU electives are going to be granted mythical new powers if we stay...

And what our fathers and grandfathers were actually fighting for was peace in Europe, something the EU exists to protect.

Quote Doom&Gloom Merchant="Doom&Gloom Merchant"uk.businessinsider.com/is-the-eu-undemocratic-2016-3 www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36429482 Is it really much worse than what we have here? Here, I only get to vote for my MP. I don't vote for who becomes PM, who become members of the cabinet, civil servants etc. Just like the EU has it's appointed positions and the 73 MEP's we elect. Difference is, we have the outdated House of Lords with 700+ unelected members, so I find the whole argument that leaving the EU is the more democratic option to be a load of b/s.'" Good points mate.. If I had a magic wand I'd get shut of House of Lords with the first waft of my wand... I'd also change the way we elect MPs over here and change to proportional representation.. But the Torres and labour don't want non of that, because it means that people are likely to vote for other parties.. Which means they will lose their power as political forces in this country... The two party system suits them nth just fine. As for the polaticians in the EU ... It's like having a House of Lords because if they don't like it.. They block it and there is nothing we seem able to do about it!

Quote Doom&Gloom Merchant="Doom&Gloom Merchant"uk.businessinsider.com/is-the-eu-undemocratic-2016-3 www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36429482 Is it really much worse than what we have here? Here, I only get to vote for my MP. I don't vote for who becomes PM, who become members of the cabinet, civil servants etc. Just like the EU has it's appointed positions and the 73 MEP's we elect. Difference is, we have the outdated House of Lords with 700+ unelected members, so I find the whole argument that leaving the EU is the more democratic option to be a load of b/s.'" Good points mate.. If I had a magic wand I'd get shut of House of Lords with the first waft of my wand... I'd also change the way we elect MPs over here and change to proportional representation.. But the Torres and labour don't want non of that, because it means that people are likely to vote for other parties.. Which means they will lose their power as political forces in this country... The two party system suits them nth just fine. As for the polaticians in the EU ... It's like having a House of Lords because if they don't like it.. They block it and there is nothing we seem able to do about it!

You are placing you faith in experts with a bad record. To use your analagy you would choose an architect whose last extention fell down because you hadn't bothered to check out his record.


As I have said in another posting: The main "expert" economist Sir Christopher Pissarides put forward in the Guardian once passionately believed in the single currency and was instrumental in getting his homeland of Cyprus to join the Euro in 2008. In 2013 in an extraordinary change of heart he had to admit he was wrong and gave a lecture saying the Euro had created a lost generation and called for the Euro to be broken up.

He said that the EU "will get nowhere plodding along with the current line up of ad hoc decision-making and inconsisten policies. The policies pursued now to steady the Euros are costing Europe jobs and they are creating a lost generation of educated young people. This is not what the founding fathers promised"

So a 180 about turn from your main "expert". This highlights my point that economics is not a science and predictions and projections from economists are more wrong than right. therefore to blindly take what any of these groups of economists say as gospel and somehow give weight to Project Fear is a nonsense. That people, including youself, are influenced by the so called expertsand without question is plain to see from your post and if this forms a basis for voting to remain then Project Fear has worked.

Apart from questioning the record individual or group of economists you also have to look where their pay or funding comes from to check out impartiality as in many cases they are guns for hire. In the case of Professor Pissarides his employer, the LSE, receives generous funding from the EU too.

As I say economists are crystal ball gazers and the voters should make his mind up on the facts not the fiction.

You'll find that I mentioned zero celebs, nine politicians, three (unhinged) columnists and one political group. And I did mention Nigel.

Anyone would think that you're incapable of concentrating on what other people say.

I am against the HoL on principle. But there has to be a place for older, wiser, more experienced people to exert an influence & debate. Some sections of the population don't seem to have learned from the demonisation of the most desperate in society in the 30s & before.

Until we all fall out again that is !!

Totally agree on each point.



It'd not exactly like the HoL because we elect MEP's, who then elect/approve specific positions, similar to our HoC. Although the election of MEP's is on a proportional representation basis, which is what you'd prefer?

Any EU 'meddling' in our laws is minimal, and even so, have they ever blocked something which wasn't for the right reasons?

What the flick are you talking about now? For one thing, you have no idea what the tarriff will be (speculation ok when it's from you, I suppose) and for another you do realise that the falling pound (15-20% is the best guess, and with interest rates at 0.5% there is no room to cut and stimulate the economy as happened after the 1992 ERM crisis) will make everything much more expensive to produce - through fuel, raw materials and everything else that needs to be IMPORTED with a weak currency.

I don't know what your business is, but I hope for your family's and your pool boy's sake that you have a CFO and advisors who actually know what they're doing and don't listen to you.

When you have an unelected moron Lord like Andrew Lloyd-Webber voting on issues, there really is something terribly wrong with the system.

I agree with your point about wiser, experienced experts being involved in the debate, but I don't believe that should be in the HoL.

https://youtu.be/USTypBKEd8Y an expert in the field without all the rhetoric and point scoring

https://youtu.be/USTypBKEd8Y an expert in the field without all the rhetoric and point scoring

Geez, that's some pretty poor understanding of economics right there.