To an extent, but I would also suggest that given it was acknowledged in 2010 that the team was in decline and very little was done in the off-season in terms of player turnover to address that, laying the blame for some of 2011's performances at the door of the coaching staff is well wide of the mark.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear - expectations that somehow Leeds would bounce back from 2010 were unrealistic IMO and McDermott/Lowes are copping the backlash for that.

Some folks on here have already made up their mind. Even if Leeds win the Challenge Cup and get to the Grand Final, none of the credit for that will go to the coaching staff. If they fail miserably on both fronts however, you can bet who will take the blame.

I disagree with Andy - not a surprise - Leeds have remained in roughly the same position as last year due to the general decline in standards of the league as a whole.

It is no surprise the top 3/4 sides are well in front of the rest - the hammerings Leeds have suffered at the hands of Saints x 2, Warrington x 2 and Huddersfield x 1 show the team is not remaining in a static position compared to the best in the comp.

Logically the team is ageing - little new blood is being introduced so logically standards will drop - their league position suggests the slow down at Leeds is matched by the slow down of the non contending sides in the league.

Your citing of poor results V Warrington, St Helens and Huddersfield while excluding creditable ones V Wigan could be viewed as being a little disengenuous given the comparison you are drawing is between Leeds and the best in the comp.

Normally I wouldn't respond in such a methodical manner to someone who clearly has taken up Brains corner as some kind of personal crusade.


Well, clearly you havent got my point. We MAY finish in the same position as last year. Lets not get carried away by one good 80 mins against a very bad Cas side. But that isnt the whole story or the full point. We have been poor this season, even by last seasons form. Our inability to do the basics for long periods of the season is a worry. How can you coach a team to do an intricate set play if they cant even catch and pass?


I dont get all warm and fuzzy over stats but I seem to remember a period this season where we were conceding over 30 points every game. To me that feels like a slide from the 20 points you mention.


Not interested. Brain is the coach so he coaches his way. If my boss said 'do it this way' and I knew/believed there was a better way I would say so. He is the coach.


I agree its about winning. hence I said my point was open to opinion. The point Im making is that at a top club its about more than 'just winning'. You have to play well. Fans would accept playing 'functional rugby' if we were winning. But we arent. We are playing predominantly poor rugby and losing.


You think Wigan are just 'functional'? Come on, much as it pains me, they are so much more than this. They can play open expansive rugby when the need and opportunity is there. But they can also keep it tight and close when they have to. What Maguire has done is teach them when to do what.

Take the blinkers off and look around.

Don't forget that the current playing staff are largely the same as in 2007, 2008 and 2009 - this is far from being a sow's ear.

This is the thing that I think pi55es most people off about the current coach - the team has so much potential and can play much better than it's current doing, but at the moment we're playing way below our abilities and wasting the talent that's there.

We were awful last year at the start of the season, but that could be reasonably attributed to a diabolical injury situation and you could also add the WCC as an extra burdon. From late April onwards, when we got some players back, our record was pretty much the same as eventual champions Wigan and we managed to knock them out of the cup along with Saints. If we hadn't started the way we did we would heave been top 2, if not top itself. Sure, we got pummeled in the CC, but these things can happen. Everything Warrington did turned to gold that day and we never got into the game. Our exit from the playoffs was hardly unexpected considering we lost our best forward and our player of the year prior to the eliminator.
I think we were close second to Wigan last year when at full strength and had we met them in a GF with McGuire and Peacock it would have been 50/50. We would certainly have beaten Saints for a 4th in a row.

This year, it's true we have had no McGuire. Last year he was rightly our player of the year and was the difference in many games (his display in the away vistory at Warrington was awesome). He isn't fit and may never get back to full sharpness. Peacock was also immense for most of last year and McDermott has had to start without him for much of the season. We also lost Eastwood who (when fit) did add a lot. His replacements, Hauraki and Cross are/were frankly e.
So how has McDermott performed? If (and it's an "if"icon_wink.gif we do match last years league placing we won't have ever come close to last years league "performance". We also have no hope for the playoffs - anyone thinking otherwise can send me details of what they are drinking or smoking, i'd like to know the next time I want to drift out of reality completely. This is one of the worst Leeds seasons I've seen in a long, long time. A soft cup run doesn't hide the fact that we have never looked anything close to quality for more than 10 minutes at a go. They simply look clueless, and while I admit, we played off the cuff for most of last year and got away with it because of the likes of McGuire and Eastwood, the cuff this year is looking not so much like that on the sleeve of a 16th century French nobleman, and more like that worn by someone sleeping rough at the back of the Headrow.

McDermott has failed to energise an ageing squad with some miles still in the tank and he's failed to bring on some of the younger players. A quality coach would have lifted a squad that was obviously needing an injection of desire and hunger. They also need to start enjoying rugby more after the pressure of 3 straight championships and the eventual deflation of last year. McDermott and Lowes have not managed this in any way, shape or form and irrespective of technical aspects of performances the team look miserable. You can't even say that we've been rebuilding or restructuring because if we have we are turning the Taj Mahal into Quarry Hill Flats.

"Time to cut our coach a bit of slack?" A good assistant yes, but no coach!

To be fair the poor recruitment is more the responsibility of GH than BM. I agree entirely with what you're saying about the play-offs though - we'd have to beat at least two of the sides we have so far failed to beat this year (and not even close in most of those games). We have also had a comparatively easy cup run - it would have been hard to pick 4 SL teams you'd prefer to play in the cup than the ones we have.

Getting to Wembley gives a chance for this season to be seen in a very different light. Looking at the range of possible results and likely outcomes (I'm assuming in every case we get knocked out in the play-offs):

1) We win - BM safe for next season, and rightly so. This is the least likely outcome to me, but it is possible. If this happens a lot more focus for poor performances needs to be put on the players, who will have shown they are still capable when they really want to put in an effort, which puts other results and performances in perspective.

2) We lose narrowly - BM safe for next season. This will be put down as a 'glorious failure' and reason to persevere with the coach.

3) We get hammered - it will be very difficult for GH to explain the rationale behind retaining BM. He reacted furiously to last year's Wembley hammering, and given the fact Bluey must have had some leeway from winning 2 GFs, it'd be bizarre to say the least to retain BM.

A narrow defeat at Wembley is probably the worst outcome of all for the future. A win would be best (obviously) and ought to give BM another season to develop the team - and ought to give him a bit more clout with the players. I for one would be willing to give him a season more then. A hammering ought to see BM depart (if not GH has a lot of explaining to do). A narrow loss could see BM retained for next year with BM's position still under threat and based on this year, see Leeds fall further behind the pack.

From afar, the stick bm gets seems harsh. It appears a top 4 position is certainly obtainable for leeds and a cc final. almost all teams would have taken this, certainly given the fact that at least 3 (hudds, wigan and wire) seem to have better squads, that is not a bad thing.

The most amazing thing is that you have had a total change of backroom staff and injuries to your KEY players, yet still dont seem to take these into account at all. any team missing there starting half back and centre, 2 outside backs who would start and jp would expect to struggle a little. This also doesnt account for 2 of your quota guys not addapting or doing well, seems your league position and cup run is best you could have hoped for.

For all of you saying that this years poor performances were down to the injuries of Peacock and McGuire at the beginning of the season, I seem to remember last years poor performances coincided with Sinfield being sidelined with an injury picked up in the WCC. Given the way Sinfield has carried the team during the early part of the season I dread to think where we would have been without him

Our poor start to last season had less to do with injuries than some suppose. We had virtually no injuries prior to the WCC but weren't playing well, including a defeat a home to Cas in round 1 when we were at full strength. For the most part, we were poor last year in spite of having what GH descibed as our strongest squad ever - on paper, at least, he was right. Last year, many times McGuire got us out of jail and virtually every week on the stats thread people commented - 'where would we be without Peacock?'. For the first half of this year we've found out. McDermott has his faults and I by no means agree with all his decisions but in some respects he can't win - if we lose/play poorly he gets the blame but gets no credit if we win/play well. If we win the cup the majority will attribute it to our excellent players - Sinfield, Peacock, Buderus et al. If we get embarrassed (like last year!) it will be because we have a crap coach!

Everyone and anyone is allowed to chuck in their two pennies worth regardless. We live in a society where opinions and free speech are welcomed. It doesn’t discriminate against anyone.

My credibility is judged by whoever wants to judge it really. Other than that I’d like to think this week’s column has generated a good debate (Thanks Fallon for starting it!) on southstander and has encouraged people to express interesting points that I’ve enjoyed reading

McDermott needs sacking at end of season or after the Challenge Cup final (Win or lose!) End of discussion. The man's a joke, make way for a better coach!!

Bang on there for me DHM dont think Mcdermott or Lowes are well thought of by the majority of the players either