Is that the same defence that gave away 3 penalties in the biggest game of the season?

Buderus dummy half work was no better than Diskin's last night, as witnessed by Diskin winning penalties with his, whilst his more experienced colleague failed to do that.

I've already given specific examples upthread, but also anecdotally we were 6-2 up when Buderus went off, and 20-6 down when he came back on.

and of the 18 point swing how much of it was down to Diskin? Before you answer that, watch the kicks for tries again, he couldn't have done much more about it.

The reason that Wigan scored tries from kicks is because they sucked Webb into the tackle before and no one filled in at fullback to defuse / clear the danger.

Means nothing.

of course this is in your opinion. My opinion is different. Defence is different to giving penalties away.

Isn't the basic fundamental of defence to stop the opposition from gaining field position and scoring points? Assuming the above is correct, and I think it's hard to argue against, how does giving a penalty away and affording your opposition easy metres and more tackles help in this regard?

btw, I have no objection to people having different opinions, it's what makes a message board interesting.

Buderus has cost us the double this season, and a 4th title on the trot.

In fact, buderus has ruined my life.

Really, you need to get out more then, or stop talking shoite...

Yeah, because i was being serious....

I just thought it was funny how the thread progressed, and suddenly we have someone saying buderus cost us the game!!!! Per lease.

Buderus' delivery of the ball from dummy half and line speed and intensity in defence is far superior to Diskin's IMO.

The biggest difference for me in last nights game was the ability Wigan had to make yards from deep in their half and get into position to make an attacking kick - the prime example was the first drive of the second half. I think with Buderus' intensity in defence and ability to get out of the line quicker we were better with this when he was on the field.

Diskin did some good things and Buderus some poor things last night but the player who offers more to our side is still Buderus for me. I think it's criminal his game time is as limited as it is at times.

Having said that Disko should, and will go down as a Leeds legend and I have no axe to grind with someone who is a very accomplished and successful Super League player.

Just a question, but shouldn't we expect more - a lot more - from Buderus given his track record pre-Leeds?

Hoo frikkiin ray, some sense at last.

Of course we should. He's been an absolute bust. When people speak about his tangible errors, as shown last night, his supporters talk about the speed of the ball from Buderus which is really unquantifiable and hasn't really done much for us this year. Diskin's speed of the ball has been pretty useful.

Yes, and I still don't think we needed him when we signed him. Although I'd argue that behind a pack which has been depleted and struggled for a lot of this year both him and Diskin have performed fairly well.

In fact after McGuire and Bailey I think Buderus has probably been our best player this year.

HAving not seen large parts of his NRL career would it be fair to say that while being a great hooker he never really managed to drag a poor Newcastle team at times to his own level? His defensive work and service are superb and can set the tone but on there own cannot change a game.

What he does he des very well and in dominant NSW and Australia sides he was clearly a great hooker but with a team on the back foot he isn't going to inspire you in the way that a Cunningham or a Lowes have done down the years.

Buderus did not cost us the game, lack of creativity in the halves and the bounce of the ball on a couple of occasions leading to 2 wigan tries cost us the game. Neither diskin or buderus cost us the game but both played poorly.

The game was made for mcguire because on at least 3 occasions there were chances for an offload which mcguire would have scored from 9 times out of 10 but nobody was there. Burrow was poor and has been all season and offers us very little. We need a Briers or Dobson kind of halve back to compliment Mcguire to the maximum.

Am I right in thinking you question the sense of signing him due to our needs rather than his ability?

Would you agree he has outperformed Diskin over the course of the season?

How would you organise the role next year as we have retained both players so will be in the same position?