Classy cocky cass certainly have our number, but that won't last forever.

Wigan will beat us in the semi and win the grand final. Possibly against cocky classy cass.

Yes very possible

Can't see us avoiding wigan as Cas will prob see to that next week.

Our experience isn't ALL that matters but it does matter. A GF week/night is a whole different experience to anything else in the season.

A Grand Final week is very different when you have a Sinfield, a Peacock, a Lueluai, a Senior, an Ali, a Webb etc in your team.

This Leeds team is a pale shadow of that. We saw that with the performance in the one true big game so far the cup semi.

Yes weve been to Grand Finals before. Weve got the reputation and aura of winners on the biggest stage but this team doesnt have the ability.

Weve no structure, no moves, no pace in key areas, our middle is soft, weve no size in the back row, no impact off the bench.

We might reach Old Trafford because we take some beating at Headingley but the team has too many failings for me to win the competiton. Cas couldve rattled 60 or 70 past us Fri if they hadnt put the cue on the rack just after HT.

The coach they have is far superior. They prepare better, they are a far superior team at this moment it pains me to say.

1 hour before kick their kickers come out with Ryan Sheridan and practice various kicks. Kicking 40/20s, attacking kicks. We dont bother.

The difference in attacking between the teams is stark and clear for all to see. They attack at pace with bodies in motion, dummy runners everywhere. We are pedestrian with no set plays. Their wingers get walk ins every week due to the runners inside them. Our wingers never get the same chances and are used as extra props.

Id love us to win at Old Trafford but i fear we are nowhere good enough to beat the teams we would have to beat.

This team isnt the team that won previous finals.

Spot on - you've absolutely nailed it!!!

Great post Marty.

I think pretty much everybody knows and accepts that. If Castleford play as they have all year in SL so far during the play offs then they will beat anyone, never mind us. If they do that they will be more than worthy of it and probably the most dominant post to post winners i could think of since Saints in 2006 led by Jamie Lyon.

Sadly we have to rely on them freezing on the big stage, but the reality is they very well may do so and we have to be ready with our best if they do choke. That's assuming we get there or even they do.

We including Webb, Senior and Ali now, even though we've gone on to win a couple of GF's after they've left.

Which brings the point back to Sinfield and Peacock. They were not only our captain and vice captain (these roles are replaceable) but they were our go to players. When we were in trouble it would be one of those two who would take up the mantle and drag us back into games. See Sinfield's tackle on Eastmond as an example. I don't see McGuire making that tackle, and it's likely that he will be defending in the same position should we get to OT. We also don't have the mobility in the back row that we used to do when the same players (JJB and Ablett) were that bit younger.

I'd love it (in a Kevin Keegan stylee) for us to win at OT, but I honestly think with this bunch of players, this coach, and this form & tactics, we are a country mile away. I'd worry about us being able to see Wigan off at Headingley should that be the semi.

I think the point Printer makes is valid and Cas with their lack of big game experience could indeed not perform when it counts. I just dont see us being the team to capitilise on it this year.

I think Wigan could and would beat Cas on the big stage.

Were in transition and will be for a few years and while 2nd is a decent effort for a rebuilding team i just dont see a trophy winning team at this stage.

Personally ive nothing against McDermott, we have had success under him and regardless of what people think i believe he has played a big part in that. I just feel we need a new voice and ideas now.

If we somehow bumble our way to the gf cacky classy cocky cass will kick the sh#t out of us.

It'll then give us a complex and well start losing gfs when we make them, like saints after 2007.

Both Hull and Wigan would fancy their chances against Cas far more than we would. Oddly enough if we were to get to OT against one of them, I'd give us a chance. I just don't buy Cas somehow collapsing against us though (complacency? nerves? which is it?).

What is patently clear is that even if we assume Myler goes well, our pack really looks poor and we currently have 5 over 30s in there who are only going to get worse with age, not better. I'd argue that apart from the likes of Ellis and Lauti'iti our overall forward shortcomings in the golden decade were hidden by having an immense player in Peacock and a rock-solid second prop in Leuluai. I've been saying for years that we have far too many average forwards, and I think that's part of it as well - ageing players, some of whom were never that good in the first place being exposed for how ordinary and old they are. Experience is all well and good, but it can't cover a gulf in ability.

You keep mentioning collapse even though it's not been said. Just look at Warrington they haven't collapsed in GF's and their first one in 2012 against us wasn't a collapse but they've failed to quite match their performance in the regular season.

Best post I've read for a long time. Spot on.