I'll still support the lads, just from the comfort of my own armchair. Doubt I'll be the only one either.

The Lazenby Cup or the Bev Risman Trophy don't really count. HTH.

In terms of SLs entertainment value being low and the finger pointed at the rucks does anyone think we should bite the bullet and adopt the2 ref system from the NRL.

The comoetition has moved light years ahead of ours in the last few years and part of that is policing the ruck.

The only problem is finding enough decent refs but two refs of a lower quality woukd be better than 1 who cant see everything

Agree with that, Eagle. I'm interested to see what happens with SL over the next couple of years. The NRL went through a similar period a few years ago where the wrestle dominated and it was widely accepted that SL was better to watch. So I'm interested to see if it's a phase that will naturally right itself or whether it was the 2nd ref in the NRL that did that.

Either way I can't see a downside to a 2nd ref. We don't even need to go down the NRL route of having a full 2nd referee where the 2 swap over, we could just have a "roving touch judge" who simply reports what he sees to the ref and gives instructions to players.

I also think injuries have played a big part in the games being poorer. Unfortunately until clubs pull their fingers out and bring some proper revenue in then squads are going to be small and so injuries will play a big role. I don't have any figures to back this up but I think most people would agree there are more injuries and probably more lengthy injuries than there used to be. So I think we need to look at ways getting rid of some of the wrestling and twisting of players in the tackle. Maybe as soon as a third player is involved in a tackle it's called held?
Or conversely you could go the other way and make the held call more controlled by the referee so that defences aren't as encouraged to get the ball carrier to the ground?

I don't often criticise the RFL as I think they often take unwarranted stick that should be directed more at the clubs, but I think they've let the sport down in not compiling figures and data on injuries in the game.

If the 2nd ref is always the junior partner then it can work well so long as they aren't scared to make a call.

Slowing the PTB is a real problem IMO. What we've seen in the NRL is a general attempt to clean up the PTB. That combined with banning shoulder charges has seen the emergence of forwards who run the ball in at top speed (which in turn helps speed up the ruck because a single defender can't hold them up).

The only NRL team which relies on the wrestle as much as in the past is the Storm, who try to slow every game down to a speed which suits Smith and Cronk. When you watch their games carefully there is unnecessary interference from Storm defenders in nearly every tackle - they are masters at the third defender coming in a nanosecond before they would be called for flopping, and there are people holding arms and legs in every tackle to slow it down.

It all detracts from the spectacle IMO - if other clubs did as the Storm we'd have the same complaints about the NRL. But the focus seems to have moved on towards these power running forwards. Something not seen as much in SL and probably a reason why our sides now really struggle in the WCC.

Speeding the ruck up doesnt make for more entertaining Rugby League but it does need cleaning up in SL but not to the extent where we see 30 penalties a game in early rounds of SL next yr and not to the speed of the NRL where teams roll downfield with boring risk free 1 man rugby.

As for SL being rubbish and unwatchable not many were complaining when it was rubbish, unwatchable and we was winning. Being a fan is not all about going when you are winning. Every Grand Final win i used to think about the day i stayed to the end of the 69-12 Premiership Final loss at Old Trafford or the day Offiah scored 10 and i clapped Leeds off!!! If i was there for those days i was entitled to be there for the GF and Cup wins weve had and it made them all the sweeter.

One of the seasons highlights, bizzarely, for me was at some of the away games when the glory boy brigade were walking out with 10 and 15 mins to go in a huff cos they didnt know how to deal with not winning every week.

Thick and thin. Anybody literally anybody can be a fan when your winning its easy. Being there when your team is struggling and needs you the most is when true fans show their colours.

If we speed the ruck up too much we'll end up back where we started 10 years ago when super league was just a scootathon and people kicked off saying defences were really soft and tries were scored too easily.

Yeah true, i like the idea of a second ref and have for a while since seeing how it works in the NRL. We don't want to go back to touch and pass scoot scoot we had before but it has really gone too far the other way and we need to try and find that middle ground. Over to the RFL.

I was there at both of those although i do confess we left long before Offiah completed his historic 10 try feat

We may see thirty penalties a game for the first couple but once coaches and players realise the stance taken by the refs they will soon adapt. Short term pain for ultimate long term gain is what is needed right now imo.

The problem is the wrestle was an innovation in tactics, it's not something you can really go back on. It would be like banning a kick to the corner. If you watch some clips of the 2004 season the tackling technique has completely changed. The kick back on the wrestle has been people moving off the mark into markers in front to try and facilitate a quick PTB or win a penalty, or people just diving to try and fake interference, and tangling the tackler up to prevent them moving away to win a penalty. Add that to the wrestle before hand and you are left with a very unattractive scruffy tackle/PTB situation.

All the ref's can really do is allow for less time once the attacker get's put to ground, but you know what that will mean don't you? Penaltyathon.

Either way, we f*cked.

You'd hope so but it often seems that they make marginal improvements to their discipline that lasts as long as it takes for refs to wind down their latest crackdown. Would a glut of penalties really improve the spectacle? To be honest, I'd rather a review panel watched a video and fined the worst offending sides. Any player committing an offence that crosses into the realm of a professional foul cops a one game ban.

The NRL made a point of having the ball played correctly with the foot at the start of this season. It only took a couple of penalties for the message to sink in and by and large it lasted the season.

All that is lacking in SL is the will to do it.

It could be they think the spectacle of the game is improved by quick, sloppy play the balls, I just think it looks untidy, gives an unfair advantage to the attacking team and represents another lost skill.

In fairness, bringing back a "proper" PTB would seem the easier task when compared to bringing order to the wrestling, flopping, holding down, milking of penalties, attempted dislodging of the ball and moving off the mark that constitutes a typical ruck. None the less, it would be a start.

I know what you mean but I think we can possibly do things that encourages defences to not wrestle as much. For instance the held call. Right now there is no incentive for a defence to hold a player up. There is incentive to hold him up for as long as possible and then get him to the ground. This is at least partly because if they do hold the ball carrier long enough for the ref to shout held then the defences get penalised with a very quick play the ball. If we controlled the held call and made it slower so that defences/markers weren't caught out by it then it may tempt defences to be not as keen on getting the ball carrier down.

I think we're all pretty much agreed on a 2nd ref which would help give instructions to the players and get defenders off quicker.

To help the attack I'd also move the point at which defences are allowed to move up. Right now it's at the point at which the ball carrier's foot touches the ball when he plays it (although in reality it's as he bends down to play it, defences are allowed up too quickly). I'd move it to when the acting half touches the ball. It should give attacks an extra bit of time and space.