JC-I'm not just blaming the coach but the structure ,selection and tactics come from him and Lowes don't they?
Of course the players shoulder their share of the blame and lets be right ive not said they should be publicly hung or burnt at the stake as witches.
Also who says Singleton won't do just as well as kylie or be good enough to at least fill the gap left by a rested JP?
We won't know weither unless we give them and others a chance and i think selection been guaranteed irrespective of form is wrong.
This season we don't have the JP and Mags long term injuries and we certainly are worse defensively.
You may accept it but i don't think it's good enough for this squad and once again IF we win the CC or reach either final that won't disguise how poor we have been will it or make it ok?
I was chuffed to be proved wrong last year and for me just reaching each final was a great achievement let alone winning 1 and looking so good for an hour in the other.
Again i ask how many poor games are acceptable if you have past success?

rhinowinorlose-To be fair the disloyal response was aimed at JC's dig.
You did however mention in one of yer other posts how you choose to support the team and that came across to me as patronising and a dig at how i support the club if that's not the case then i don't mind apologising for mis-reading it.
We will certainly have to agree to disagree because as far as your debate about lacking substance to my opinions i say the substance is there on the pitch imo.
Also i'll repeat what i originally posted re-abuse of the coach anything personal etc is not on and not something i take part in or condone but that doesn't mean we cant have differing opinions of his tenure selections etc etc.
I'm happy enough to leave it there and hope we can re-group and mount a serious top 5 challenge and have a dig in the CC semi.

Hi batleyrhino – I don’t know that I would say the decision to play all the England guys on Monday was desperate; while we needed to win, we didn’t need to win by a huge margin (and just as well!!). I’ve talked earlier about some of the players needing the confidence that can be taken away from a good performance, and I wonder if that was a large part of the decision.

I agree that the last 18 months have been really patchy in terms of performances, but any problems from last year clearly were addressed (as we saw in the performances at the end of last season). If we look at this year alone, we had a pretty decent start to the season (February to the Catalans home game in April), and then since then I agree, we haven’t seen a lot to inspire us. It’s difficult to say whether or not these things are being addressed in training as the execution comes from the players (obviously I talk about this in my original post).

I don’t have a problem with people getting frustrated about our performances but what I find shameful is the booing and heckling that I’ve seen. I haven’t seen much leniency – fans standing in front of me were booing Mac from the middle of last year and even during his turn to speak at the Wakefield home game last year (our last game of the season). Fans within my earshot were booing him at Bradford away, in Manchester and at Warrington away – before the game even started. Thankfully this was met with a supporting chant for Mac (which was not started by me!) I daresay this booing has happened at plenty of the other games too (though not in my earshot). In his time at London the team may have finished in lower places but in my opinion there were many other contributing factors to this (see my debate with tvoc) so I find it difficult to place all the blame at his door.

You may look at my views and say I’m trying to disguise something, but what I’ve really tried to do is defend a guy who’s done plenty of good things at our Club, even with the recent performances. I’m not ignoring anything, I’m just looking at differently to some of you.

Come on folks. This is another AP/Keith alias. Don't get sucked in.

Shameful my @rse!
Time to get rid, simply not good enough for Leeds.
Do the honorable thing Brian before its out of your hands.

It's someone offering a well thought out counterpoint to the rabid baying for the blood of anyone but their sainted man-crushes in the playing squad. If you choose not to engage in that kind of debate, it's your loss. It offers a hell of a lot more to this forum than a lot of the drivel that passes for opinion on here.

To be honest its nice to have a positive poster on here. I'm kind of split on the subject though, i think while McDermott needs to be questioned for the performance (opposite to what the OP thinks) i agree with him that the criticism shouldn't go into abuse territory. Healthy and non-too-personal criticism is ok, going onto booing during games, name calling and disrespectful comments i think is unnecessary.

I believe Swiftcorn got a bit of a ban following an argument on the VT with an Aussie about Aussie Rules Football and claiming he knew Australia better than a guy who lives there. Don't know if it applies to here though but his absence is greatly appreciated.

Quote Gotcha="Gotcha"Come on folks. This is another AP/Keith alias. Don't get sucked in.'" It's not really a case of getting sucked in, as others have commented it's remained a civil discussion. I've always been notoriously poor at identifying the men behind the 'characters' but agree it's likely to be one of the regulars. Either way it's provided an outlet for some frustration. Will it change anyone's view - I doubt it. rhinowinorlose probably still thinks Henry Paul wasn't replaced at the Harlequins and that he was always a leading role model off the field : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 038590.stm I'm guessing the Quins were just grateful he wasn't the chauffeur driver behind the wheel of that Mercedes S280.

Quote Gotcha="Gotcha"Come on folks. This is another AP/Keith alias. Don't get sucked in.'" It's not really a case of getting sucked in, as others have commented it's remained a civil discussion. I've always been notoriously poor at identifying the men behind the 'characters' but agree it's likely to be one of the regulars. Either way it's provided an outlet for some frustration. Will it change anyone's view - I doubt it. rhinowinorlose probably still thinks Henry Paul wasn't replaced at the Harlequins and that he was always a leading role model off the field : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 038590.stm I'm guessing the Quins were just grateful he wasn't the chauffeur driver behind the wheel of that Mercedes S280.

Agreed. It's a discussion forum, this is a discussion. Does seem to wind a few people up though - not sure why.

I think in short they players have to take the criticism for the way they play and they shouldn't be exempt from criticism but equally the manager has to take some blame for the standard of play and tactics used in the game.