As compliments go that's a bit back handed

Again, I agree with that, and on the view of me. You are absolutely correct on not articulate as Gareth, I would never argue otherwise on that. Infact that is the main attribute I admire about Gareth.

However, what Gareth is saying on this thread is completely wrong, he is just good at saying it.

I have given him example after example which completely contradicts what he is putting. But instead of providing a response, negative or otherwise, he just continues down the same lines, trotting out assumptions that are not true.

I don't think he is wrong. He just sees his value to the team in a different way to you and I.

FWIW I can see why he thinks these things, and despite being a defender of him on these boards, he has still underperformed, I just think that the negatives are outweighed by his positives.

That's not what I was talking about. He's got an opinion on that which is fine, but the term "contributed virtually nothing" was ridiculous.

I was talking about the rest of the posts.

Out of interest where do people think Buderus comes on list of major signings of the last 10 years or so

I would say something like this

Feather
McDonald
Vowles
Buderus
Connolly
Toopi
Eastwood
Delaney
Adamson
Carroll
McKenna
Dunemann

[clear space]

Donald
Poching
Furner
Leuluai
Bai
Webb
Lauiti'iti
Ellis
Peacock


I'm sure I've missed some there,a nd its quite hard to balance the various aspects, but I have tried to based on appearances, impact, expectation, commitment, reputaion, likely cost

I would say out of all them, including the disaster ones, that the biggest non event for me personally was Vowles.

I say that, not because he was bad, but because I personally thought he was an absolute class player, very under rated (despite man of steel), and a fantastic rugby brain on him. But for some reason it just didn't quite work out here for him.

I'd agree with that. I was very disappointed in the difference in his form from Cas to Us.

Still

Vowles - South Stand - Lowes = Legend.

Vowles smacked James Lowes in the face.

Do not under-estimate that.

forgot about that.

Still, Vowles would have done a lot better trying to tackle properly rather than put king hits in all the time.

He wasn't the first either. The biggest non event ever for me (and I know Leeds have had plenty), is Richie Eyres. The difference in that lad on coming to Leeds and what he was away from here was huge.

That was a particularly poor era for underperformers.

Err.. cough , Paul Bell , cough