We were really struggling without a proper hooker even in those three final games we won. The middle was really struggling but we came up with some great plays at crucial times. Wigan also paid for not having any big metre making props to bust us down the middle in that 2nd half. A Chris Hill or Alex Walmsley (whose ankle was nowhere near fit for the playoff semi) could've finished us off.

And when titles and a treble are on the line you can find that bit extra to cling on in defence to send some legendary teammates off in the best way....can you do that week in week out when it's Round 6 away to Cas or Round 13 away to Warrington with final league placings still well away.

Absolutely. The team deserve huge Credit for the way they dug in and showed champion mentality to turn it around when all seemed lost.

My main point is the warning signs were there regards the hooking role in particular despite the success we had.

And we were without many players for that period. Including Burrow. That's why we werent the same team.

We were very good rotating Burrow and Aiton, then Aiton got injured and we carried on being good, then Burrow got injured and we were crap, then Burrow came back and we beat the top 3 teams in succession.

Somehow this has been rewritten as a journeyman like Aiton being some kind of world beater and a 'proper hooker' being the missing piece of the puzzle when its clearly never been the case.

We have shown for nigh on 15 years we can win with Burrow, when we have gone with a 'proper hooker' the only time it has been successful is when we have gotten a very very good one. Thats why Millard didnt really work, its why we didnt really miss Aiton, its why Falloon was a dud. Its why Diskin did work, its why Buderus did work, and why Segeyaro has worked. The link here isnt 'a proper hooker' its that they are very very good players.

That is the problem, not Burrow holding the team back, but the fact we lost an outstanding player in Sinfield and didnt replace him, and then saw McGuire barely play. We go with Thurston and Cronk in the halves and nobody is worrying that we dont have 'a proper hooker'.

OK then, we need a very very good hooker Smokey... glad we all agree, lets leave it at that

Yeah, apart from winning a challenge cup by a record score, beating the team who finished 2nd twice, the teams who finished 3rd, 4th and 2nd in successive weeks and beating Hull we really struggled.

Apart from the treble who knows how good we could have been if only we had Papua New Guinea's 3rd best hooker.

If he doesn't get poached sometime in the coming weeks, yes i agree.

We did struggle in those last three games, just because you win a game doesn't mean you didn't struggle or play well.

Oh and Burrow didn't even get on until 50 mins in the cup final when we were already about 5 scores clear and didn't get on until the second half vs Wigan in the Super 8's and as mentioned he wasn't at hooker for the Hull game either so you can hardly point to them.

We beat the best other three teams in the league. In succession. As well as beating the 2nd best team again. At the business end of the season. Yet we were struggling, not playing well. Crying out for PNG's 3rd best hooker to replace a player with 7 grand finals, 2 challenge cups, 3 WCC, 3 LLS, and 2 Harry Sunderland awards.

I mean its not like 5 weeks earlier Aiton had started a game against Wigan, you know when we were super duper unbeatable, before we were struggling, before we werent playing well, before we had to suffer Burrow at hooker.

Do you remember what the score was in that game? Surely we must have beaten them by 30-40 points considering how well we were playing and we had Aiton to be a proper hooker for us? and considering we could beat Wigan twice when we were struggling and not playing well, surely we walked that game?

I imagine the reason it's not announced yet is because we haven't secured safety yet, he obviously won't stay if we were in the Championship.

If you want to base it solely on the final result then so be it. Can clearly see through that you issue isn't about Burrow at all it's just harping back to your moan last year about not liking Aiton.

If Burrow had been our starting hooker last year and no Aiton then we wouldn't have been 6 points clear heading into Wembley IMO and then the end of the season looks very different. If you want results, Aiton was the starting hooker when we won 10 of our opening 11 to get away from the pack, he remained starting hooker to help get us to 1st spot after 23 Rounds, he was starting hooker in e previous cup matches before Wembley. He might not have been available for the end of the season but he was definitely hugely responsible for getting us there over the course of the year.

You are right, Aiton was the hooker when we lost to Warrington, when we lost to Warrington again, when we lost to Widnes, when we drew with Huddersfield, When we lost to Wigan, When we lost to Wigan again, When we lost to Cas.

Burrow, playing for the team that was struggling, not playing well, beat Wigan, beat Wigan again, beat Huddersfield, and beat St Helens.

You know what, 7 grand finals, 2 challenge cups, 3 LLS, 3 WCC, and 2 Harry Sunderland trophies and yeah, im pretty comfortable basing it on final results. You and Paul Aiton with your 1 challenge cup (as a back up to guess who?) can judge it on something else if you want.

Lets get one thing right, Aiton is a decent hooker but not top bracket and i don't think many would argue he was anymore than that. The point is that he is a hooker who can defend well in the middle and does the fundamentals of hooking naturally which is what we lack when relying on Burrow for long periods. Is it also any coincidence players like Watkins who are not having to put in as big a defensive shifts as when hiding Burrow seem to look far more potent and energetic with ball in hand?

Even if we manage to secure Segeyaro im with others who would still like to see a deputy who is capable of stepping straight into his shoes if he gets an injury and keep Burrow solely for the impact role which still does so well and can continue being a match winner in.

100% right mate! Also add in some kind of marketing campaign; T-shirts, shirts, season tickets, lunch box, pots n pans?

Gary seldom misses a chance to sell our club and so he should.

Burrow started the Widnes away game actually and again he didn't even get off the bench until the 2nd half in the Wigan Super 8's game when we were already 20-4 so I don't know why you're clinging onto that one.

The thing is no one is staying Burrow starting there can't work on occasion/s. But doing it for 3 weeks is much different to doing it for 30 weeks. And it's not about who is the better player individually, it's about who add the better balance to the team. Doesn't leave centres having to defend like 2nd rowers, doesn't have your middle guys having to make up the 30/40 tackles your hooker would make, has better passing and organising from dummy half so that your props can get you further downfield and give your HB's crisper ball.

I find it very similar to the Wayne Rooney debate for England. For me he is the big problem for that team. Some will defend him saying he was one of our better players on Sunday because he picked up the ball a lot and did a lot of passing.....however it completely messed up the balance of the side. His insistence to drop so deep made Kane struggle as he was left isolated, the defence wasn't having to worry about the man-in-the-hole number 10 position so impacts on the wingers and he's sat on top of your other central midfielders taking their job off them. His performance might have looked good to some if judging solely on what he did, but for the negative issues he caused his teammates then it was the main problem.

RL like football is a TEAM sport, picking a team should be about balance, everyone has their role to fulfill in defence and attack, it shouldn't be the case where some are hampered by doing the workload of others.