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Quote: Cala Millor Rhino "It was a chartered plane by the RFL for the club! Hope that helps you look for a reason for the defeat! Club went to the same hotel to rest up/massage etc as they always do! Only difference was it was a 50 seater rather than a jet2 150 seater'"


I wasn't looking for a reason, otherwise I would have said it. We lost because we were lazy and poor, not because of a plane. I also don't accept McDermotts comments after, there was no pride from some of the players.

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Quote: nantwichexile "I said too that Aiton was going to end up being a bigger loss than many seemed to realise ...

I also said the tactic of one halfback and Sinfield at dummy half had run its course....sadly it is now showing. Last tackle options badly exposed. How much experience does Lilley have at dummy half? He seems to be doing okay and there is some better urgency to what has been a dreadful lazy half.

Worse we are probably going to see Wigan win the hubcap unless Leeds can pull it together next week and Saint Helens do us a favour.

Maybe we can come up with a new solution for the play offs.

Can't see Leeds pulling this back now

It is not just the loss of Aiton that has cost us the all important momentum, but losing Burrow, Watkins and now Keinhorst has lost the balance in the side that was so important to the style we were playing.

The tactic, as you put it, of playing with only one half back was not a chosen one but forced by the injury to Burrow who has been very effective from the bench. Remember we have already lost Sutcliffe so our key half back/hooker options have been reduced to zero. Add to this the loss of Watkins and his cover Keinhorst and we are left with Ablett's right centre limitations being fully exposed.

Without JJB for the key matches was always going to prove costly although Keinhorst made a good attempt as a replacement but now he too has fallen for our injury jinx and Walters and Achurch have not stepped up to the mark. So Mac has a real dilemma to fill the crucial 9 and 7/6 positions. Much will depend on Burrow's fitness as he is the only other player with the experience and ability to play in either position.

Without Burrow and Watkins will be too great a handicap I fear with all the other semi finalists in better shape fitness wise.

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The tactic of playing one half back was not forced on McDermott he chose to play that way - if Ward is not suitable there is one place to look, the coaching team. If they haven't been able in a year to get him to a suitable standard then they need to look at themselves.

If anything costs McDermott it will be two things: lack of depth in the squad and an over reliance on the older players/reluctance to use youngsters. Handley showed when given a run they can perform.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "The tactic of playing one half back was not forced on McDermott he chose to play that way - if Ward is not suitable there is one place to look, the coaching team. If they haven't been able in a year to get him to a suitable standard then they need to look at themselves.

If anything costs McDermott it will be two things


Handley could be the key....as I said elsewhere he HAS proven his abilities at the highest level (and was unfortunate to be 'dropped'). If a straight hooker swap of either R.Ward (or Lilley - who looked okay there and certainly sped things up around the ruck) is not trusted for the run in (and it is a valid question as to why that is so) then maybe keep Sinfield at dummy half; bring the proven Handley into the threequarters and try Moon at SO. I know you don't tend to think much of the notion of Moon at SO, but for sure the ploy of Sinfield named at SO and playing dummy half is now fooling nobody and has reached its sell by date. The last tackle options have been pish poor and badly executed when relying soley on McGuire.

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Quote: nantwichexile "Handley could be the key....as I said elsewhere he HAS proven his abilities at the highest level (and was unfortunate to be 'dropped'). If a straight hooker swap of either R.Ward (or Lilley - who looked okay there and certainly sped things up around the ruck) is not trusted for the run in (and it is a valid question as to why that is so) then maybe keep Sinfield at dummy half; bring the proven Handley into the threequarters and try Moon at SO. I know you don't tend to think much of the notion of Moon at SO, but for sure the ploy of Sinfield named at SO and playing dummy half is now fooling nobody and has reached its sell by date. The last tackle options have been pish poor and badly executed when relying soley on McGuire.'"


Or even just try Moon at hooker vs Cas, see how that goes. Got good hands, could run from dummy half, strong in defence.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "The tactic of playing one half back was not forced on McDermott he chose to play that way - if Ward is not suitable there is one place to look, the coaching team. If they haven't been able in a year to get him to a suitable standard then they need to look at themselves.

If anything costs McDermott it will be two things

Come on Sal. Aiton was first choice hooker with Burrow covering that and scrum half. We lose Sutcliffe and then Aiton to season ending injuries. So when Burrow also gets injured together with Watkins the squad is really getting stretched on top of JJB for the season. Few sides will have a ready made SL standard 3rd choice hooker to call upon.

R Ward is not ready for SL just yet and to play him when he is not ready in high pressure crucial end of season matches is not the way to look after a youngster. Handley performed well in a side that was playing well and one that was not shorn of so many experience players and yet he made a fair number of mistakes in matches that had less pressure. In any case he was deemed as ready to step up, young Ward is not.

If Burrow is not fit I would play Golding at 7 or 6. But the pack has got to step up and Ablett should return to the pack.

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Quote: Juan Cornetto "Come on Sal. Aiton was first choice hooker with Burrow covering that and scrum half. We lose Sutcliffe and then Aiton to season ending injuries. So when Burrow also gets injured together with Watkins the squad is really getting stretched on top of JJB for the season. Few sides will have a ready made SL standard 3rd choice hooker to call upon.

R Ward is not ready for SL just yet and to play him when he is not ready in high pressure crucial end of season matches is not the way to look after a youngster. Handley performed well in a side that was playing well and one that was not shorn of so many experience players and yet he made a fair number of mistakes in matches that had less pressure. In any case he was deemed as ready to step up, young Ward is not.

If Burrow is not fit I would play Golding at 7 or 6. But the pack has got to step up and Ablett should return to the pack.'"


So you deem Ward who is a hooker, not ready to play yet you propose playing Golding who does not play 6 or 7 in the Academy in one of those key positions?
You may be right but that is a major gamble & could be perceived as being somewhat bizarre.

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Quote: Old Feller "So you deem Ward who is a hooker, not ready to play yet you propose playing Golding who does not play 6 or 7 in the Academy in one of those key positions?
You may be right but that is a major gamble & could be perceived as being somewhat bizarre.'"


Firstly it is the coaches who deem Ward not ready yet. What little I have seen of him gives me no reason to disagree with the coaches. I am not sure that we need an inexperienced hooker to play just a few minutes from the bench unless you think he is capable of starting to allow Sinfield to revert to standoff? So in the absence of a suitable 9, assuming Burrow is still not fit, then the only alternative to playing Mags on his own at halfback is to risk Lilley or Golding. I would prefer Golding.

Secondly the heavy workload a hooker has to do is quite different to a half back so IMO the risk of throwing in a novice at 9 is far greater than in one of the halves.

Thirdly Golding learnt his rugby as a scrum half and has not only been deemed ready for some first team experience but has acquitted himself very well in difficult circumstances recently and has shown the mental toughness that is needed. So it is not because he is not good enough to play 6 or 7 in the academy but rather he has the extra skill to play f/b too.

Fourthly if Mags undertakes the major role he will have a junior assistant with pace, good hands and feet as a link. Whereas R Ward would be on his own at acting halfback.

Not an ideal scenario but we need to score more points than Cas so I would go with the extra attacker.

It has been suggested that Moon play at 6 but although I am sure he would aquit himself well this would leave a major problem at centre especially if Watkins does' make it. We need our first choice backs in their usual positions to have a chance of regaining our free flowing match winning style. With that in mind if no Watkins then I would bring in Handley on the wing and Briscoe to centre and move Ablett back into the pack.

If this is too bizarre for you what are your suggestions?

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Quote: Juan Cornetto "Firstly it is the coaches who deem Ward not ready yet. What little I have seen of him gives me no reason to disagree with the coaches. I am not sure that we need an inexperienced hooker to play just a few minutes from the bench unless you think he is capable of starting to allow Sinfield to revert to standoff? So in the absence of a suitable 9, assuming Burrow is still not fit, then the only alternative to playing Mags on his own at halfback is to risk Lilley or Golding. I would prefer Golding.

Secondly the heavy workload a hooker has to do is quite different to a half back so IMO the risk of throwing in a novice at 9 is far greater than in one of the halves.

Thirdly Golding learnt his rugby as a scrum half and has not only been deemed ready for some first team experience but has acquitted himself very well in difficult circumstances recently and has shown the mental toughness that is needed. So it is not because he is not good enough to play 6 or 7 in the academy but rather he has the extra skill to play f/b too.

Fourthly if Mags undertakes the major role he will have a junior assistant with pace, good hands and feet as a link. Whereas R Ward would be on his own at acting halfback.

Not an ideal scenario but we need to score more points than Cas so I would go with the extra attacker.

It has been suggested that Moon play at 6 but although I am sure he would aquit himself well this would leave a major problem at centre especially if Watkins does' make it. We need our first choice backs in their usual positions to have a chance of regaining our free flowing match winning style. With that in mind if no Watkins then I would bring in Handley on the wing and Briscoe to centre and move Ablett back into the pack.

If this is too bizarre for you what are your suggestions?'"


I think that Lilley getting picked yesterday (and giving a fairly reasonable performance in the circumstances) I can't see Golding suddenly getting in ahead of him now.

I think McDermott obviously wasn't keen on starting Burrow at hooker judging from his substitute selection vs Wigan and HKR. However if/when Burrow returns I think he will now just go back to that. It had its flaws but we've also won a GF, CC and WCC with him starting there so we know we can still be successful with that selection.

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Quote: ThePrinter "I think that Lilley getting picked yesterday (and giving a fairly reasonable performance in the circumstances) I can't see Golding suddenly getting in ahead of him now.

I think McDermott obviously wasn't keen on starting Burrow at hooker judging from his substitute selection vs Wigan and HKR. However if/when Burrow returns I think he will now just go back to that. It had its flaws but we've also won a GF, CC and WCC with him starting there so we know we can still be successful with that selection.'"


You could well be right and Lilley looks a good prospect but I would go with Golding for this one.

If Burrow is fit then I agree he should start at 9. Sinfield is now not physically up to an 80 minute 9 and I would sooner see him go out dictating play than running himself into the ground at 9.

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Quote: Juan Cornetto "You could well be right and Lilley looks a good prospect but I would go with Golding for this one.

If Burrow is fit then I agree he should start at 9. Sinfield is now not physically up to an 80 minute 9 and I would sooner see him go out dictating play than running himself into the ground at 9.'"


I don think their's anything wrong with Sinfield's performances at hooker. If we named him there and had Sutcliffe still available to play in the halves I think we'd ok.

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