Had he done it with the same set of players, then we would have agreed. But he didn't did he?

Done it all .... really?

The example of Maguire merely shows the value of getting the number one appointment in the club (playing wise) correct.

Leeds are showing what can happen if you get it completely wrong. It could take several years (or more) before we see Leeds challenging for honours again. Not all of that is down to one poor coaching appointment but it plays a highly significant part.

I'm with you on this. A good coach makes the world of difference. A coach of Maguire's standard would improve Leeds markedly, no doubt, but even then we are probably a handful of players short of regaining a GF spot IMO.

True, he didn't have access to Noble's best second rower in Gareth Hock.

The only other difference as I recall was Deacon in for Tim Smith, and I don't think anybody was trumpeting that as a master stroke, in fact it was ridiculed by quite a lot of people at the time.

Of course young players were a year older - that's the same at every club every year.

You can tell when a team is being badly coached and when a team are being extremely well coached. Wigan and Leeds are excellent respective examples of this and Maguire at Leeds would make a big difference, just as BMD at Leeds has in the opposite direction.

The only difference between 2009 and winning the GF in Maguire's first season was Deacon, so obviously while not the same I doubt we can attribute the massive difference to Deacon. It was like watching a different team when Maguire took over, everything was done to a considerably high standard and with an intensity light years away from the previous seasons with Noble. The defensive and attacking structure, the generally game plan and attitude of the players are light years ahead of the time under Noble.

Save your breath. Gotcha refuses to accept that Tony Smith is a better coach than Paul Cullen and Smith has only been successful because of new players brought in.

Don't let facts....etc....etc....

Ah, noted.

Really? I direct you to the next quote below.




Now where in agreement. Do not under estimate what this did to Wigan. Last season who were their shinging lights again besides Richards? Tomkins brothers, Farrell, Hansen, McClorum, Goulding, to name but a few. All players that had become fully adjusted to Super League by the previous coach. Not too dissimilar to when Leeds had introduced many of our own youngsters to super league in 2002 and 2003. In fact we came extremely close to winning a cup and league double in 2003, but the players were better still in 2004 and it showed, and better again in 2005 despite no silverware.



Completely agree with this. But taking 2011 out of the question, what would then happen in 2012 in our current set up? we would be back to what McDermott has done this year. That's the bottom line of it.

A new coach will always make an "immediate" impact on a team lost with confidence and direction. But would Maguire really make a difference going forward then with those very same past it players?

Yes, because the team would be playing with structure, intensity, intelligence and direction. Rather than being an ill-disciplined, headless chicken rabble. You may disagree with that, but I'd venture that it's a difficult stance to adopt with any real confidence.

I'm not arguing the merits of Leeds' playing rosta, I'm arguing the merits of a good coach.

No, it's very easy to in part dissagree. I have watched these same players regress for the last 3 years, even whilst winning a 3rd on the trot championship. We had last season and before an extremely good coach. An extremely good coach who jumped ship because he knew exactly how these same players were going to go this season.

What we see now from Leeds is exactly what I called and predicted 18 months ago. That was long before any thoughts of McDermott has coach. It's not hindsight, go back on my posts and you will see it clearly. I always said without major changes to the playing rota that this would happen.



There is no doubt what a good coach can do, but he needs the right tools to do it. We saw that ourselves in 2004. We had a wonderfully developed squad, built on the right ingredients, and added to it a very good coach. History will show you what was achieved.

We also had an extremely good coach in the late 90's, who had one extremely good year, and then when realised the players were not capable of reproducing, flattered to deceive following this.

Were Wigan a poor coached team under John Monie? no they weren't, but they were not better than under their predecessor, and Monie himself even said the players were that good that the team could coach it's self. Even West had success with that team, could he really be regarded as a good coach? Could West come into Leeds now and make a difference?

Treacle pushing exercise - you don't think Maguire would improve Leeds markedly, I do. Let's agree to disagree.

No, your wrong on what I think. I agreed that Maguire would improve Leeds performances this season. I just don't agree he would improve the very same set of players going forward. Just like any other great coach in history, they need to stamp their own mark on the team and that involves their own players.

We were lucky at Leeds over a number of years, because our players were great at a young age and therefore were growing better together. Coaches did not need to drastically change things, but just add to it. What we need now though is major surgery.

Yes. It was.

And we DID get rid. And yet the catastrophe continues.

For reasons that bemuse the hell out of me, you guys now seem to have somehow stumbled across and started following the trail to hell that we blazed.

West could make a major difference.

'Taxi for McDermott and Lowes.'