You can excuse the odd mistake, particularly if effort is made to cover for it. But we seem to be making mistakes and nobody is putting in the extra effort to make sure that mistakes aren't turned into tries. Anyway Sinfield said the defence up the middle simply wasn't good enough, which letting in 38 points at home would tend to support.

Given Sinfield's comments post game, I'd expect Crosby plus maybe Oledzki and Smith to get a chance. If Ward moves back to the pack we have the ability to drop forwards who aren't putting in the required effort in defence. That won't fix everything but some of these guys really need to have a look at themselves and their contributions, and if they don't buck up then they need to be dropped.

Our mistakes in defence were not up the middle on Saturday. They were on the right edge of Sutfliffe, Ward, and Briscoe, who missed 14 tackles between them, out of 28 misses for the team.

However, where we were soft in the middle was with defending on the line.

I understand we could do we with a win but can anyone explain how this is must win?

If we lose Sunday but win the remaining 3 games after that would put us on 10 points and that would be enough to be safe wouldn't it?

Its a must win ,every game in middle 8s is must. If we get beat by Widnes would you say ; its ok all we need to do is win our remaining 3 games and we'll be ok ? come on !

Our defence was soft all over the park, but didn't they have 2 break away trys through the middle?

surely one of the halves in the academy is worth a punt have to be better than the woeful Sutcliife, if they are not worth given at least a chance now they probably never will be given one.

If we lost the pressure builds and we would have to beat Salford who look a class apart from the rest of the middle 8s if we are to avoid the MPG.

If Leeds lost to Widnes then there would be so very worried administrators/directors at Headingley.

If we lose to the shambles that is Widnes then we don't deserve a place in SL. FWIW I think our attack has improved enough that we can just try and outscore them, we need to fire out of the blocks and put it to bed early - problem is I don't think this current side has enough killer instinct to do it, watching the KR game back we should have kicked on ad put at least 40 on them but we just didn't look like we mentally could do it. And despite everyone praising the 'brilliant' KR they were just as bad if not worse than us in defence, we just couldn't take advantage of it.

Also on the middle 8 teams, is it just me who hasn't seen anything outstanding from Toronto?

I totally get that Sal but that doesn't make it a must win game. We can lose and still stay in Super League. If we end up in Million Pound Game that will be must win but this one certainly isn't.

We could lose Sunday and still avoid Million quidder.

I agree

Toronto are a championship side filled with championship players - they are just the best of a poor bunch of championship sides. They will get in the £m game on that basis alone.

Let`s hope one of Walker, Golding or Ward moves to SO but I won`t hold my breath.
FWIW I think Ward was preferred to Keinhorst in order to nullify Carney but our right side was as bad as our left side edge has been.
My choice would be:
Golding
Briscoe T
Keinhorst/Sutcliffe (only for his goalkicking)
Moon
Briscoe L
Ward
Myler
Crosby
Dwyer
Singleton
Peteru
Ferres
Cuthbertson.
Subs
Parcell/Walker
Oledeski/Smith
Mullalley
Thompson

Simple fact is that we must win. If we don't we really deserve everything that will follow. When I watched Widnes at Headingly recently I was stunned at how poor they were. Mind you, I felt the same way about us when I was leaving HQ on Saturday. This should be a 'gimme', but it won't be sadly.

I know this is the Leeds board and I am a supporter of another team. My thoughts for what they are worth are you should beat Widnes but its at their place, how much better is the form of Keeds compared to Widnes, you are playing on thst plastic pitch. Its one of those nervyvgames that as a Wakey fan we know so well, it could be a real rolker ciaster as Widnes are cooked if they lose so its going to be an interesting contest good luck becuase if Leeds lose its pressure then, massively different to the pressure you are used to in big games for trophies, the pkayers need to ve in tge right frame of mibd and your defence needs tightening thats for sure.

I wonder whether we'll see the return of Josh Walters if Sinfield feels he needs a few more defence-oriented forwards?