I hope he has a decent career, but he's another one where the hype about him as a junior was sadly misplaced. According to some he was going to be the cornerstone of the Leeds pack for the next decade....

There was nothinge ever misplaced. He never really had the hype until he made the first team when younger, but regardless of that, the fact that Leeds over the last few years have constantly failed to develop top juniors would be a more fitting reality.

You only have to look at the pack to see the reality of that - we have 5 Aussie forwards in the squad - not one forward has come through the academy in the last 3 years.

And Stevie Ward is just the player anybody would have expected of him at a younger age anyway. His deveopment is purely natural, and was enhanced by getting in the first team early. Turning a blind eye to our poor development of juniors over last few years does not make it right. There was nothing better in the juniors of 2000-2003 than what there has been in the club from 2012-2017. We have just handled it differently.

Can't say I'm too bothered by this, he looked good playing against Championship opposition but seemed to struggle with the pace of Super League. Hopefully with a bit more game time he'll be able to make the step up and forge a decent career.

Good luck to JB for his future. He may well turn out to be a good prop as he matures but currently there are one or two young props ahead of him at Leeds on merit.

It is very difficult to predict how a young prop will turn out as few make it at a young age because of the physical demands. Many of the best props especially those with handling skills started as backrower or even backs

I think the development of quality youngsters has been a problem throughout our game and not just at Leeds. The very predictable style of structured play at SL level seems to have resulted in too many players lacking creative skills. The game has become too defense orientated and boring and there is an argument to reduce the number of players to 12 to create more space for attackers.

Really though you were never going to replicate the quality of kids that came through in the Sinfield/McGuire/Burrow/JJB/Bailey/Ablett/Diskin intake were you?

That kind of thing happens once a lifetime.

I think the best you can hope for is really one player a year coming through the system and making it as a first team regular. Think you've kind of done that with Watkins, Ward, Singleton, Sutcliffe, Keinhorst and Golding. That these players haven't hit the heights of their predecessors isn't that surprising - some of them are still young. I'd say it's recruitment from other clubs and overseas where things are lacking.

It happens when you do it as Leeds did it, plan for it, back it, have faith in it, and make it happen. It is just total cr@p to say it happens once in a lifetime, as it doesn't happen at all unless you do the first bit, but can happen more often if you follow the same. The reason it doesn't is out of choice, as you still have the last batch to have a career, which doesn't mean you can't still promote the best of the rest to challenge what is there.

The one's you listed are a myth. Watkins was years ago, before the period we are talking about. Keinhorst is not the standard we are talking about, christ there are many many kids who more than match his talent, and he didn't come in until late. Goulding or Stucliffe are not the standard of Juniors we used to have. Singleton is no better player now than he was at 16. Ward is the only one, and as said previously, a blind man not knowing about the game could have seen what he was going to be long before he got with the Leeds coaching.

Well I for one can only think of it happening once at Leeds in the entire time I've watched RL since 1980. At no other point in the last 37 years have Leeds brought through such a great set of young players in "one batch" and dominated the game. It may have happened slightly before my time in the years of Holmes, Smith, Atkinson, Shoebottom etc but that't it. Are those the only periods in the past 50 years when Leeds made it happen? It sort of backs up my point doesn't it? It happens very rarely.



The players I listed have done what I said - they've become regular 1st teamers. I made the point that they're not of the quality of their predecessors though it's too early to judge some of them (Goulding and Sutcliffe for instance).

I don't think you properly considered what I actually wrote Gotcha since we seem to be pretty much agreed. The kids coming through at Leeds over the past 10 or 11 years aren't as good as the "golden generation". However some are very decent and some are solid and some aren't SL quality. Twas ever thus.

My point is that it's not realistic when you put the club's history into perspective to expect that quality and number of young players to keep coming through. You might think it's possible (and it may be) but it's not going to happen. History tells us it won't.

Where we differ though it seems is on the point you made on kids coming through. I am unsure if you mean first team, or available for development for first team? because that is where the difference lies. We do have the equal juniors coming through of that golden generation, it is just simply we do not deal with it the same way in this era as we did back then, once they are at under 19 level.

My point on it can keep on happening, is that it is by choice. It isn't done each because if you had a batch of 7 or 8 one year, they will ultimately, subject to earning their shirt, have a near ten year stint holding it. Leeds broke that ideaology back in 2002 by planning for something different in a transistion and clearing the decks. But it can happen as often as the club wanted. The players individually, are not once ince a lifetime, the development of players is however following that route.

What you have to remember here, and it is not been arrogant to smaller clubs, that Leeds do generally pick up the cream of the crop (although accepted lost out to Wigan on a player each of the last two years). On that basis they should be able to produce super league players much more often than certain other clubs. They did used to, our record speaks for it's self, but we don't have that same record over last five years.

Let go, Hardaker - For other reasons,
McShane
Baldwonson,
Amor,

These are just a few of the once in a lifetimes !

I mean first team. All the ones I’ve mentioned have been selected in the first team fairly regularly. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think all of them have made 10 or more appearances this season so aren’t bit part players. I’m not sure what your term “available for development for first team” means but I suspect you mean fringe players like Baldwinson, Handley, Jordan Roberts, Oledzki, Walters and Cameron Smith.

Are you saying that Watkins, Ward, Sutcliffe etc are at the same level as the “golden generation” but have not been “dealt with in the same way” as them? Or are you referring to Baldwinson, Handley etc or some other group in the U19s. What do you mean by “dealt with in the same way”?



Bit confused what you’re saying here. Are you saying that Leeds if Leeds treated all their youngsters in the same way as that “golden generation” they’d have the same result (mega success etc)? They just have to choose to do it?



No arrogance in that statement. The game is strong in Leeds so they should be producing a lot of players. They always have. My issue is with the assertion that I think you’re making that Leeds could produce a “golden generation” any time they choose – simply by developing any bunch of players the same way as they did Burrow/McGuire/Sinfield etc. I don’t think you could.

So we do differ, becuase I am adamant we could. For Sinfield, see the player we missed out on to Wigan from Siddall. Had we planned for it, we would have got him, just like we got Sinfield from Lancashire back then. The forwards at Juniors are way above what was in that golden generation you speak of. Johnson, whom isn't even played at scrum half these days, is a far better half back than Burrow was then, and is miles above any hooker back then at same age. These are just two or three examples. It can be done, but it is by choice how you take their development on. And I can be clear now, waiting until they are approaching 20 years old to take the next stop will never produce another golden generation, or indeed a golden player even.

A lot of players mature later than others - natural physical development takes different speeds with different individuals. You can look great at 16/17 but not so good later as others catch you up. It may be you're never going to be better than what you were at 16/17.

If I did believe you were right what's the reason for Leeds not simply repeating what they did in 2002 again if it's so easy to replicate over and over?

Who is the player from Siddal that we lost to Wigan? Will watch out for him in years to come, see if he lives up to the potential.