Achurch was completely gutless on Friday.

The criticism of display has not gone far enough.

Agreed. Trying to compare him to Ablett is laughable. Granted Ablett has been at fault for tries in his time, much like JJB, but not through bottling it like Achurch.

Someone said you can't be surprised if he's not determined to bust a gut for the club with the way things have gone and us wanting (and getting) rid of him. But hell surely he should be viewing any limited chances he gets this year as a chance to put himself in the shop window so to speak for next year and other clubs. Even Bailey managed to up his performance a bit when it was nearer contract expiring time.

A travesty that Achurch has a Challenge Cup winners medal and the far more deserving Keinhorst missed out on one. (I know Keinhorst got a GF ring later but I imagine that gutless lump got one of the extra rings too).

Out of curiosity who do you think played worse than Achurch on Friday?

It isn't really relevent who played worse, as Achurch wasn't the worst, and therefore I would just be deemed as having a go at others. But to be fair I will answer, and IMO Sutcliffe and Watkins performances were worse. I am in full agreement on the errors Achurch made, but that just completely overlooks the good stuff he did do, and had someone like JJB for example done his same stats there would be praise rather than over the top critisism.

Like I said, is he value for money, no he isn't. Do I think it is worth perservering with him, no I don't. But he certainly is not the player portrayed on here either, just the scapegoat chosen for those who do not want to critisize other players.

And for the record, there was no comparison with Ablett above, it was a statement based on a particular example of Achurch on Friday, as tackle watching, something Ablett does often, and therefore used as an example. I could have used other players also, who do the same at times.

No fan of Achurch and he wouldn't be in my team but as said nowhere near the worst this season and "gutless" description way OTT.

He's been paid by Leeds for 4 years, which if truth be told, has been a holiday for him.

I've always liked the look of Achurch and felt that over the last few seasons he's often shown glimpses of promise as a wide-running second-rower. I'm not sure whether he's just been unlucky with injuries and McDermott's selection policy in which he is preferred as a prop forward, or whether he's simply lacked the effort and heart to succeed at Leeds. His deficiencies have certainly been more noticeable in recent games, but I can't also help noticing that the real glut of criticism against him has come now that it has been confirmed he won't be staying at Leeds. Yes, I'm aware that many people have criticised him for a while now.

Regarding the others, I agree with Gotcha that Sutcliffe and Watkins have been poor recently.

The problem with Watkins is that he'll always be picked for Leeds - especially with the current injury situation, AND he doesn't have a great deal of added responsibility on him, unlike say, Hardaker, who has become much more important to the team since his move from centre. Watkins needs to look in the mirror and ask himself whether he is content becoming another Ryan Atkins or Leroy Cudjoe who is capable of occasional moments of brilliance or try-scoring but just as likely to have a total nightmare or be anonymous. Right now we need him to step up into the mould of someone like Jamie Lyon or even a Brad Godden... Someone tough who can produce results (however ugly) when the team need it.

As for Sutcliffe, he needs to focus on the basics to ensure his first team place is cemented. At the moment our best halves combination looks like being McGuire and Lilley. We might have to look again at Stevie Ward in the halves if Sutcliffe can't develop further. We need more than a show-pony who produces occasional cameos, but he also ought to be given time in light of his past injuries and the complexity of his intended role.

Moon for Cameron Smith the only change to the 19.

If he's fit, you'd expect he slots straight back into the left centre. Hopefully that doesn't mean Keinhorst joins Baldwinson in missing out, although I suspect it will unless Delaney drops out following his stinger on Friday.

Delaney didn't sound too confident in the Yep. If Moon is fit he goes into the backline and Keinhorst switches to backrow.

Baldwinson should come in for Achurch, for no other reason than we gain nothing from giving Achurch games at this point. You give Baldwinson games he proves he can be a long term part of the squad.

It will be a disgraceful selection if Delaney or Achurch are selected over Keinhorst. JJB needs to play loose forward. We need to pray that he stays fit until Ward is back

Hopefully Achurch will drop out, Keinhorst shuffled to back row. Baldwinson in for Delaney if he's not fit enough to play

Hardaker
Golding Watkins Moon Handley
Sutcliffe Lilley
Galloway Burrow Garbutt
Ablett Keinhorst
JJB

Falloon Delaney Mullally Singleton.

If everyone in the 19 is fit enough to play we should go with

Hardaker
Golding
Watkins
Moon
Handley
Sutcliffe
Lilley
Galloway
Burrow
Garbutt
Keinhorst
Ablett
JJB

Subs
Falloon
Delaney
Singleton
Mullally

I'd swap Falloon and Burrow around. Saints under Cunningham like to play a lot of one out rugby and we'll need a hooker who can defend to soak up the early pressure then let Burrow come on to attack the tired defenders later on.

I would too, but Burrow was MOM imo on friday and playing like that no way Mcdermott will change things for this.It will take us getting a hiding again for things to change i reckon, could be against Saints although they don't pose much threat out wide right now with the current three quarter line and it should be a close one.More than likely the Wire away game.