I thought Smith was going to HKR?

I'm sorry but I can't let you get away with this one.....Garbutt was rightly praised by many for his positive beefing up of the pack last season....and without a doubt was (and is) SL standard. Certainly he is of this season's SL standards: unquestionably.

How can you reconcile 'should never have been signed' with 'helped a tired side at the end of last season' ? Surely for that factor alone it was a 'very good, prudent signing' (as indeed most said at the time)?
Without the signing of Garbutt it would have been very much less likely Leeds would have won the treble ..or maybe indeed any silverware. As you say Garbutt came at the exact right time for a team that was on its knees in the forwards and sinking. How you can then go on to say he should not have been signed is a little contradictarily bizarre.

Garbutt isn't SL standard is a ridiculous statement. He was superb for the second half of last year and as Nantwich says, was probably the reason we were able to pull off the treble.He isn't playing to that level right now but quite frankly, who is?

Always though Brian Mac was massively overrated as a coach - how long until there's an SOS call to Sinfield?

Sal Paradise in "talking utter cr@p" shocker!

new coach never rated mc dermott anybody could have taken over leeds with the team that was in place and players coming through i think lowes had more idea

You can have James Lowes, please, take him!

Garbutt played a few games against tired opposition that didn't know his game. He was fresh given his lack of activity prior to coming here.

Now everything is on a level playing field his impact is non-existent. Can anyone on here seriously say he is having anymore impact than Galloway? No he isn't and his true quality is there for all to see.

Leeds needed a fresh pair of legs - it didn't matter than much who they were - it was the fresh pair of legs that made the difference not Garbutt.

The idea that he was the difference in winning the treble is ridiculous - comparing his impact to that of Ali is frankly laughable.

Sal nobody is making an impact it is why we are where we are.

And i never mentioned Ali so i don't know why you mentioned him.

Cuthbertson is making an impact - he has really stood out in a poor side so has Ferres - we are where we because the squad isn't good enough partly because it has too many poor overseas players - Garbutt being one of them.

I never said you mentioned Ali - most agree he was the difference in 2004 - you are suggesting Garbutt was the difference in 2015. I merely suggesting Garrett's influence was not that significant by giving you a near identical instance that really did make a huge impact.

Whilst i agree Garbutt has started this year not at the level he joined us last year i dont agree that he isnt good enough. The squad needs quality adding no doubts but id like to see what a fresh Coaching set up could do with an injury free settled 17 because i dont think the current set up can take us any further now.

i think his arrival had a huge impact on us winning the treble yes, of course i wouldn't compare it to Ali he was sensational but Garbutt lifted our pack and was a god send really just when we looked to be running a bit flat up front.To just say we needed another body is unfair he was frequently cited on here as a top performer on the majority of games he played.

Garbutt is probably an average player. He looked really good last year and rightly got praise for what he added to our pack, whether anyone could have done it is a strange question, the only thing we can say for sure is he did.

This year like the rest of th pack he looks unfit and not as enthusiastic as last year. Perhaps he had a bit more of a point to prove. Going forward I'd like to see him add another string to his bow, at the minute he looks one dimensional.

This could all change if/when the rest of the squad picks up. I think at his best and with some work, Garbutt would be similar to the Wire vintage Carvell, or a fitter Wigan days Feka.

The defence all year has been a shambles. That doesn't require people to be in form, just to work hard as a unit. It certainly doesn't need your first choice 17. That's the biggest indicator of the team spirit being up the creek.

I noticed Peter Smith pointed out that BM talking about injuries and players having to play whilst injured and yet not picking others who are fit. That suggests there's some serious interpersonal stuff going on behind the scenes. Also the first murmurings from him about BM.

One thing I've changed my mind on. If we don't make the Super 8s and form doesn't pick up markedly I'm no longer sure BM can survive to next year. Crowds for the Middle 8s will be awful, and without a couple of big signings for 2017 pushing season tickets will be a hard task if the rest of this year remains dreadful.

OTOH whilst clearly the buck stops with BM, some of the players should be ashamed of their individual performances as well.

Yep, no way the majority of the players are giving 100% at the moment imo which leads to the obvious question of whether Mac is/has lost the dressing room.