Our second row has been for a while the only thing good about our pack but the moment we get the Props the second row now looks week.

Burgess for me needs to play in the second row once he is back and up to speed.

Faz and Bateman are too lightweight at this level and maybe provide backup don't cut it at this level as starters.

In my opinion there are 2 players capable of sorting the problem. Whitehead moving to the NRL will hopefully see him achieve his potential and he has the potential to be a top second row.

There is also the forgotten man Joel Tomkins, struggled since his return at times but now has a full offseason to get sorted. If he can get back to the player he could be he could provide the size and aggression we lack.

If only Hock wasn't such a prat!

Halves were very poor. Williams is no where near international level just yet. I'd drop Williams and Bateman and play gale and cudjoe. I honestly can't understand how McGuire was so over looked. We are lacking a kicking game, long passing game and game management. I would say defensively we were very good but no spark in attack. Need to get the 3/4s some ball early and in space.

As a second row playing centre I though Bateman did well today, he certainly put in a very good defensive effort - he hits and sticks like an octopus. But his error count with the ball was pretty poor.
Watkins got given the ball early once and caused havoc, beat defenders and offloaded. Ironically in commentary Jiffy Davies said Hardaker needed to hold onto the ball and pass later. Thankfully Hardaker knows that you give the ball early to Watkins and things happen.
The main problem through out the game was the total predictability of our forwards with the ball. If you are not going to pass and don't threaten an offload as soon as you are caught by a couple of defenders the rest of the defensive line can retreat and get set which is what the Kiwis soon realised they could do - contrast that with England who had to surround the ball carrier and dare not get back until the ref called held or the kiwi attacker was on the ground. We were too easy to defend against. It helps even less when it becomes blindingly obvious that neither of our half backs, but Williams in particular, can't pass to the right.
We didn't attack anywhere but inside the Kiwi 10 metre zone. Hardaker and all the outside backs had absolutely nothing to do on attack, no space, no structure. Even then, if FGB had done anything other than face plant the grass we would probably have come away with a draw and a series win today.
The easiest thing a poor coach can do is get the defence right, they should be judged on how their teams use the ball.
And, finally, our kicking game was absolute sh**e - again. Field position is so critical in international rugby, we failed spectacularly to put anything resembling a decent kick in. A shame because the defensive effort was absolutely mammoth and the player should be commended for the commitment they showed.

If we had Percival for the centre position we could move Bateman into the back row.
I'd be tempted to throw Gale in for Williams and mcgilvary for Burgess.

The play has been dull, easy to defend against and very pedestrian .
One man up play.pointless..well..almost, it did score two points .

I have consistently said I cannot see what anybody sees in Widdop...."marquee player" my foot. My guess is if he wasn't playing in the NRL he wouldn't be selected. Awful. Williams too has been disappointing, but he is obviously better at SO allowed to do the off the cuff stuff with a controlling SH alongside him. I'd drop Widdop and try Gale at SH.....Williams more than Widdop needs to be persevered with IMO (he can only get better; Widdop is poop)
However, the main problem is a boring, up your jumper one up rugby from the forwards. Oh for a Leeds type off load game. NZ look amateurish in this 'Leed gameplan' by comparison. What a wasted opportunity to promote all that is good about RL in the capital. I said last week's match was boring; this one was even worse !!!!!!

Bateman is a good terrior like forward that can ably fill in at centre; but to pick him twice as an international centre is dire. Is there nobody better? Genuinely! What about Shenton? He does actually play LC....or Percival if thinking about the future.
Hardaker's strengths have had no chance to be highlighted; chiming timely into the line is probably not his best ability. Watkins is about the only one that looks anything like a threat. Oh for some decent ball.
I'd switch Joe Burgess to LC (can't be any worse than leaving him like a RU winger out on a limb with never the remotest chance of the game coming his way) and bring in McGildray(sp) on the RW.
Bateman into the second row at Farrel's expense.

NZ are nowehere near what you would consider to be a 'world champion' side and this has been the best opportunity to achieve good international recognition for some time; playing like this again next week means IMO that NZ will snatch this series in another borefest in Wigan.

The highlight for me was watching the old 1978 footage of Colin Welland in the dressing rooms.....don't remember that at the time.

Great to see some of my old boyhood heroes in Big Roy and the Bionic Barrel

I'd imagine McGuire wasn't considered because he won't feature in the next WC. I'd stick with Williams; ordinarily I'd stick with Widdop too but our halves were so deficient today I don't see a way to win the decider if both play. Stick Gale in; we've nowt to lose now.

And to think, all the stick Sinfield got for being picked at HB for England.

England in this series so far have reminded of Leeds 2013-14. Defensively sound and hard to score points against. But in attack just try and grind away and don't get the backs involved properly.

Without huge changes to the squad we were able to change our style completely so wouldn't write off anybody in this England team just yet. The finger has to be fully pointed at McNamara for this series so far. Whilst Gale has had a great year I can't see how he'd have turned things around today.

Aye, I'm sure he'd be spectacular against Salford and Widnes.

Unfortunately, those aren't the teams you have to beat if you want to pick up major honours.

He's incredibly one-dimensional and offers no on field leadership.

What Gale can do, which Widdop seemingly struggles with, is playing what's in front of him and taking what the defence gives you. He's also got a kicking game both long and short.

If McNamara is happy enough with the performance both his halves have put in over 160 minutes, then he's further off the pace than I thought.

It's a coaching setup of dreams McNamara and Jimmy Lowes. Quite how Jimmy manages to get a role is unbelievable.

Someone who can pass confidently off their left hand would be a start. But it's the game plan that truly sucks big balls.

I don't think Gale could of done any worse today at least he may have brought a kicking game with him.I thought Farrell had poor game amongst others, and would probably swap him for Westwood next week.England have their work cut out if they cannot speed the ruck up,Roby was the third best hooker on the pitch.

Great hyperbole.

However, how he performs for England (who only get to play together a few times a year) under McNamara versus International sides

Doesn't confirm how he'd perform for Leeds (who play together weekly) under McDermott versus Super League sides.

Whitehead as just one example, looks disappointing at International level but has been one of top 2nd rowers in the competition this year. He's not the only one you could say that about at International level for England.

I think Widdop and Williams are both talents. Their kicking game could improve, but they're both better than they've shown today. I also think Whitehead, Ferres and Hill are the best offloaders in the league (other than Cuthbertson - and now we know why he's not there) and none of them promoted the ball, or put the defence in two minds with that skill once today. So the halves had little space, and the centres had no ball. It was easy for NZ, and it was entirely down to the coaching instructions to bash it up the middle and not the ability of the selected team.

Four drives, then a limited shift, then a mediocre kick. Every time. All Steve McNamara seems to have learnt in the NRL is how to get a team of class players to perform like his Bradford Bulls.

The annoying thing is that we actually *do* have the players to beat NZ (and when they're without Johnson and Foran we should be beating them convincingly, because their reserve halves are barely club standard) but the worst performer associated with the England team is one who gives the orders.