Throw in opportunities for Lilley in the halves as well

So, you don't rate our depth in that position. Fair enough. But given how wrong you've been proven with Keinhorst I'll beg to differ.

I know you felt the need to stick to your guns with your initial assessment on Keinhorst (as a project that would be found out) but think it's time to say fair enough he's proved you wrong.

What happens to the half back position if Aiton goes, that reduces your options to two - McGuire and Sutcliffe with Lilley as back up.

In that scenario Leeds probably need an experienced half back - the thought of either Moon or Hardaker at half back doesn't fill me with good vibes.

Err, I haven't stuck to my guns at all. I think you will find I have consistently praised his attitude, work rate, and great hands over the very weeks he has played this year. I think he is much better than my initial assessment.

What he isn't however is anything close to some others current assessment, and after only a few games. Over the last few weeks in the backrow, he had gone from a couple of very good games (one where I stated he was MOM), to looking very lightweight there, and in his last game very indecisive.

Where you feel I have stuck to my guns, I feel others are creaming their pants far too early. He still hasn't made it, and it might be having him as a filler might not do that. I happen to think unlike others, that if he did bulk he would have a much better chance in the backrow, than has a back where he is distinctly below average. But his great hands and willingness to put his body on the line is really suiting of the backrow.

At the moment, until he really hits his straps, I would put him in the same sort of category of a Phil Hassan, and Adam Hughes, sort of player, who is striving to become a Chris Clarkson.

And for balance here, when a player like Danny Kirmond was linked with here, it was met with much underwhelming on here. This was a player pushing for international, and very consistent in that season. Where's the consistency on the views? My initial view on Keinhorst was that he wouldn't make a super league centre. Until he does we are in the same boat.

More games like his first couple in the backrow, and I will very gladly give the lad the praise he deserves (and for Leeds benefit I hope that happens). However, more games like his last couple, and if he is holding back the progression of players like Minchella and Cameron Smith, then I will also state it. For now though, he is a million times better than Walters, and whilst Ward is out I would rather see him in than a starting backrow of the other options at the side of Ablett. I would like nothing more than the lad to put in a man of the match performance over next few weeks. I really do like the lads attitude and commitment.

Only if you assume that if Aiton leaves, we don't replace him

I'd say in that scenario that Leeds would need an experienced hooker rather than a halfback.

We really aren't "light" at halfback for next season.

I would disagree - an injury to McGuire and your options are very limited - also it is unknown how Sutcliffe will recover from his operation

So we have 3 halves. If McGuire gets injured you play Burrow. How many should we have in the squad, just in case they get injured?

If this is how we're judging "lightness" in areas of the squad then we need at least 1 more full back, a winger, 2 centres and 2 hookers even if Aiton is still with us.

Most SL clubs are struggling to find 2 decent halfbacks in their squad never mind 3. We managed perfectly fine for 8/9 years with 3 halves. It's only been since the emergence of Sutcliffe we've had the luxury of 4.

If we sign a halfback its for the future, to take over from McGuire/Burrow not because we're lacking depth in that position.

The problem Gotcha is that you didn't express your view on Keinhorst in the balanced way you have done above. There's little I can disagree with what you've said about Keinhorst. I share your opinion on his overall talents and think he does need to bulk up for longevity in the pack or stay as he is as cover for centre. I actually think there's a lot to his game at centre than is better suited to the position than Moon but that is a different discussion.

The view that you expressed at the time was that he was a pet project who would never make a Super League player. That view was clearly wrong. He's playing with regularity, appeared in a major final and is now such a competent super league player that you think he was worthy of man of the match recently. Weren't you supposed to be baring your backside on the town hall about now? It's the over the top bombastic way that you express your opinions that leads to them being challenged as much.

I agreed about Kirmond, by the way. Thought he would have been a brilliant signing but he's stagnated badly since then. Might not have done here mind.

This is spot on. In a salary cap sport with a 25 man squad then you can't really have a HB of decent quality just hanging around in case of injury. That's like buying a very good goalkeeper in football and just having him sat on the bench every week as backup to the starting keeper.

Yep. It would also be virtually impossible to do because good quality halves aren't going to sign for a club where they're 4th choice in the same way as top goalkeepers don't stay very long at a football club as no.2 choice.

If disaster strikes and we lose Sutcliffe, McGuire & Burrow to injury then Lilley will have to step up alongside someone moved from another position, probably either Hardaker or Moon. That's what happens when you get unlucky injuries like that. It doesn't mean you stockpile players in one position just in case of injuries. It would be a waste of time, money & salary cap space to sign a 4th halfback to add depth.

Your right about saying he was a pet project, but my actual words following that were "never make a super league centre" as long as I have a hole in my backside. Now, that might be fair to say a bit pedantic, and the truth is I never thought of him as a backrower, but those were the actual comments.

I also said Yates was nothing more than a bit of PR to make the relationship with Hunslet look two way, and that he would never make it.

Sorry Gotcha but you actually said 'super league player' as page 3 of the link below... m.rlfans.com/forums/viewtopic.ph ... 5&start=20 Best to just put your hands up and say you didn't think he'd make it in super league full stop.

Sorry Gotcha but you actually said 'super league player' as page 3 of the link below... m.rlfans.com/forums/viewtopic.ph ... 5&start=20 Best to just put your hands up and say you didn't think he'd make it in super league full stop.