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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection." 23/08/2014:



Quote: Andy Gilder "Stand to be corrected, but didn't he make his debut off the bench and play in the back row?

Can't remember him playing in the pack too many times after that mind.'"


He made his debut at Magic weekend vs Bradford when Tansey scored 'that' try. He only got on for the final 20 mins and his SL stats page says he did 3 carries and no tackles.

RL Project site has him listed as starting on the wing in all but 2 of his Leeds appearances with those other games being subsitute appearances in his first two games at this level. He's only made 10 tackles or just more on 4 occasions in his Leeds career in league games so it doesn't suggest he spent a long time in the 2nd row if he did find himself there at one point during a match.

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I used to be an advocate of Hall moving inside to centre or second row...but now I am not so sure!!!! Hall's great assett is his finishing ability (who can ever forget his try for England vs the 'world's greatest Full Back' or in the CC final against the hapless Cas opposite number). He's the best at it since the great Alan Smith (and I don't remember him ever been moved into the pack). Like Hall his greatest assett was not speed, but he kept his wing position even when there was a faster player inside...David Smith !!

Can't Handley also play centre? If Moon does move on there seems to be a potential natural progession for the lad into the LC position. Alternatively he could keep his wing position with T.Briscoe moved into the centre position - he seemed pretty good there on boxing day. However, again I feel Briscoe is best utilised on the wing in the same way that he too like Hall is fabulous at bringing the ball back into play giving the forwards that valuable breathing space.

Golding I forsee more as a future stand off. (Surtcliffe to LF?). Again I have changed my mind about the future position of Hardaker being SO; the lad is too good at FB and as others have stated perhaps not best equipped for the passing excellence required in this position

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Hall is one of the few British players recognised as world class in any position - quite possibly the only back given that sort of credit in Australia. Absolutely barmpottery to suggest moving him unless his ability on the wing drops off a cliff.

Handley looks like he has the perfect build for centre if he fills out a bit. Assuming everyone else stays, you'd have to say Moon ought to be the one making way down the track. Next season might be the toughest one for Handley - he may need to be loaned out all year to another SL club as the rotation of wingers doesn't work.

I also hope the plan is to keep Sutcliffe at 6. We look likely to be moving to a genuine two playmaker system from next year, and the McGuire/Sutcliffe combination looks like a good bet.

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Ash is really impressing me with his composure from such a young bloke.

The try he got from the Sutcliffe cross field kick may have looked simple. but only worked because he was determined enough to stay on his wing. Would have been easy and enthusiastic to possibly to leave his wing and attempt to support Watkins from his break. But he didn't, he held his line and got the rewards.

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Whilst Handley, who I am sure is delighted to have had an unexpected run in the first team, has done a good job covering for us, it would be insane to suggest that either Hall or Briscoe move over to make way for him. Have you all been on the crystal meth?

The back 5 at Leeds are considered the best in Super League. Some would argue the best in World RL. Who in their right mind would consider dropping or moving one of these world class stars to make way for a young kid who has been OK without being brilliant?

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I think there are lots of reasons to avoid rushing things. Handley is probably going to end up playing a lot more first grade this year than anyone, including him probably, expected. It's gone very well. He will have learned a lot. He has a look of a young player who hasn't finished developing physically at the moment (as does Golding) so I think it would be reasonable to think that when the senior squad wingers are back the lad will get a well earned break and some time back in the lower grades. I think we've been doing quite well at managing long term prospects carefully of late, and long may that continue.

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Quote: Andy Gilder "Stand to be corrected, but didn't he make his debut off the bench and play in the back row?

Can't remember him playing in the pack too many times after that mind. '"


Ryan Hall's debut was from the bench at Millenium Magic 2007 (as others have stated) where he came on for Carl Ablett taking up station on the right wing. His first carry was from acting half around where the left centre would be positioned as he got stuck in.

His only other bench appearance was March 2008 (also incidentally V Bradford Bulls) and just to correct one thing stated earlier Hall in fact made ten starts between those two bench outings. In the March 2008 match Hall came on and played right second row tasked with defending on the inside of Ellis who started the game and remained at centre. Hall was 'gassed' in no time but that was a feature of his early Leeds career (IMO) even when playing on the wing and something that has obviously improved greatly since.

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Quote: El Diablo "I think there are lots of reasons to avoid rushing things. Handley is probably going to end up playing a lot more first grade this year than anyone, including him probably, expected. It's gone very well. He will have learned a lot. He has a look of a young player who hasn't finished developing physically at the moment (as does Golding) so I think it would be reasonable to think that when the senior squad wingers are back the lad will get a well earned break and some time back in the lower grades. I think we've been doing quite well at managing long term prospects carefully of late, and long may that continue.'"


Agree. No reason to rush him and he has shown he is - quite literally - a safe pair of hands.

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Going back to the original question. IMHO Ash should keep his place and Ryan should and will earn it back but Briscoe should also do the same and I would expect him to find it a lot more difficult to unseat Ash

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Where do the likes of Hall and Briscoe "earn" their place back, given there isn't a reserve grade competition?

Unless you're suggesting they go play for Hunslet for a few weeks?

They've earned that place over the last 12 months (or in Hall's case, even longer). Handley hasn't done enough in his spell in the side to usurp either of them when fit IMO.

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Whilst appreciating that Ash is still learning his trade, it seems to me that his positioning sense is actually better than that of Tom Briscoe. The number of times that Briscoe overran a pass opportunity was irritating given the quality of Leeds' centre play - I have not seen similar wasting of chances by Ash Handley.

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Quote: Rhinofan "Whilst appreciating that Ash is still learning his trade, it seems to me that his positioning sense is actually better than that of Tom Briscoe. The number of times that Briscoe overran a pass opportunity was irritating given the quality of Leeds' centre play - I have not seen similar wasting of chances by Ash Handley.'"


I thought in the few games they played together this season Watkins And Briscoe seemed to be on a better wave length.

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Quote: Andy Gilder "Where do the likes of Hall and Briscoe "earn" their place back, given there isn't a reserve grade competition?

Unless you're suggesting they go play for Hunslet for a few weeks?

They've earned that place over the last 12 months (or in Hall's case, even longer). Handley hasn't done enough in his spell in the side to usurp either of them when fit IMO.'"

Fair points. IMHO Ryan would be straight back if fit but Briscoe's work rate is so much less than Ash H I would send him to Hunslet for a couple of weeks and learn how to go seeking the ball.
What I really don't want to see is Ash abandoned and then next thing he is "on-loan" to Salford or Wakefield for the rest of the season while McDermott dreams up another reason why Tony Smith seems to have the Indian sign over him!

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Quote: Bobtownrhino "Fair points. IMHO Ryan would be straight back if fit but Briscoe's work rate is so much less than Ash H I would send him to Hunslet for a couple of weeks and learn how to go seeking the ball.
What I really don't want to see is Ash abandoned and then next thing he is "on-loan" to Salford or Wakefield for the rest of the season while McDermott dreams up another reason why Tony Smith seems to have the Indian sign over him!'"


I would suggest opening the eyes at matches in future. Briscoe was one of our top players until his injury, because of his work rate and metres made.

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Briscoe was awesome before his injury. Makes great metres. I think he will join Ryan Hall in the "world class" bracket. We can kill teams from either side.

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