Andy, don't look at Kirke's carries as a maths equation. Focus on him whilst he's on the pitch. Watch his movement. He's actually a genius at avoiding the ball. I think if you watch him closely you'll change your view on him.

Nobody who ever sets foot on a rugby pitch is a coward but there are degrees of bottle that players possess.

I have been on the Headingley pitch a couple of times. I'm definitely a coward.

But did you have a bottle?

I bet you took more carries than Ian Kirke

McGuire hints 2015 will be last year for JP AND KYLIE. www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-6644078 I would imagine Adam (Cuthbertson) is being lined up as a long-term replacement for JP and Kylie, who are likely to retire at the same time at the end of next season.

McGuire hints 2015 will be last year for JP AND KYLIE. www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-6644078 I would imagine Adam (Cuthbertson) is being lined up as a long-term replacement for JP and Kylie, who are likely to retire at the same time at the end of next season.

We're going over old ground here. I have watched him. I like the way he controls the speed of the ruck defensively - he does a fair bit of dirty work there. I wish he would run with the intensity we have seen glimpses of in the last couple of years more often. But he doesn't and while he's doing the other bits of his job so effectively and there are many willing volunteers to carry the ball I'm happy for him to be in and around the squad. He won't be on megabucks and he hasn't (contrary to what people will have you believe) stalled the progress of Singleton.

I also don't see him as above criticism. He defended poorly for a few weeks halfway through last year and I criticised him a lot (perhaps not on here). I don't disagree that he could do more with the ball, but as a 4th / 5th prop I think he's a good enough player.

That's an entirely fair comment. I disagree with it entirely but, like you say, no point going over old ground.

This is the most invalid argument I’ve seen with regards to resigning Amor – I agree, he was pap for the few occasions he played in our first team, but the potential was there. He would have had to have a bucket load of potential to even make it anywhere near the first team.
So we shipped him out on loan, like we have done with numerous other youngsters… and guess what? He got good. The difference with Amor was that we gave him the option to either return as a second string prop or stay at Wakefield as a starting prop. Kyle chose the latter.

What we should have done is simply recall him – mistakes were made with Amor but to say he was shizzer, that’s why we got rid is wrong.

I take it all back. Kirke has been shambolically bad tonight. He's not the only one though

McGuire as been shocking and singleton.but as above all shocking so far,

Definitely not the only one. But he has got yo be the last player you would want to put on in a hard tussle. Why we persevere, sorry pish about, keeping putting this player in, is a complete mystery.

I started this thread & have read nothing that changes my view that we should off load Kirke & Bailey before next season. If Kylie wants another year then go with that.
Bailey is clearly out of favour & Kirke was woeful again tonight (but certainly not the only one) !
I'd rather have some younger players busting a gut than have 30 somethings going through the motions.

Can we bury the fallacy that he is a good defender once and for all?

We were in a 12 point hole solely because of the introduction of this big lazy bottle-less get. His glacial like retreat from the ruck, with his back to the play, for Warrington's first try was the worst thing I've seen and it came with him on the field for less than sixty seconds.

I'm even bored of typing this crap now, it's such an embarrassment he gets to pull a shirt on alongside these great players and it's cringeworthingly sad that people defend the lazy fekker. Big lump, soft waste of space.

And it's not like last night was sub par for him. The rest of the team maybe, but that was a regular display for Kirke,