I still rate JJB, but aren't sure his body can still handle the week to week demands. In an ideal world he'd be part of the rotation. If so he'd still be a big game player. Certainly have plenty on options in the back row

Its a long time since we've seen Ward, but one game that stands out for me is the Playoff vs Catalans away. A massive game, especially for young Ward against a big Catalan pack, but Stevie put in a couple of thunderous shots and was a machine in defence. He reminds me a bit like Greg Bird. He's got the ball skills but also loves graft and damage in defence. Sutcliffe played a completely different role for the team last year and, unlike Ward, looked dodgy in defence. Unfair to compare them both with McDermott thus far giving them different roles.

I think the team needs to be rotated vigorously if we are to stand any chance of silverwear. Last year the pack started the season like a house on fire, all were busting a gut with sheer hard work. It was no surprise players were dropping like flys.

Sutcliffe looks most capable of braking the line and most effective doing so out of everyone in the squad. I've said on other threads I can't see a 17 without him.

That may well prove to be case in the future, but not sure where you have come up with that in the past season.

It still doesn't justify why he would be ahead of Ward, who has shown much more in other areas of the game to justify his position. Of course, assuming that Ward does come back the same player before his injury.

As I said, I would like to see both in the side, but IMO Ward has done more to justify being ahead.

I think we will actually get a big season from Mcguire this year. Never looked to have fully got over his injury last year, a full preseason and we may see him come back well, similar to his injury in 2010 I think he came back better post injury than he was in the year or two before. I think it will be a mistake to write him off.

What i hope is happening is that Mcguire is drilling everything he has learnt not in to Sutcliffe, but in to Hardaker. If Mcguire can pass on some of his skills in backing up the play and support running, and drill in how important it is, and how he learned his passing game then there is no reason Hardaker couldnt go on to be one of the best FB's in the world.

But what a shame to lose, when he is gone in two years.

Seeing his natural ability to brake tackles and go through the line. That's where I've got it from. I'm with G on this, seen much more from Sutcliffe so far than Ward.

He was moving to Wigan this off-season apparently, didn’t seem to come about.

I think we should do the best we have, with the best we have. If we turn Hardaker in to the best FB in the world and lose him, we lose him, at least we will have had him.

I opted for Ward on the bench (instead of in place of Sutcliffe or JJB) taking into account the length of his absence. He hasn't yet played since last April and his pre-season last year was spent recovering from the GF shoulder injury. By the time the season kicks off he'll have only played 11 competitive games in 16 months for Leeds.

Considering how much people kick off on here when more senior players are brought back from injury, it's surprising no one has batted an eyelid about Ward possibly slotting straight back in.

If you want your 13 to carry the ball and defend in the middle, which seems to be the way of the modern game, then it's Ward over Sutcliffe every time in that role for me.

if you want an extra playmaker then Sutcliffe have the edge, but I'm not sure that's the way McDermott wants to go.

Didn't Sutfliffe play in the same academy side as Ward? Wasn't Ward the main playmaker of that side?

Look, I am not denigrating Ward. I'm excited for the day that he and Sutcliffe are in the team together.

But, IMO, Ward showed glimpses of looking like a first team player when in the team. Sutcliffe looked more than comfortable straight away and looked more 1st team ready. I also think he's shown himself to be more of a linebreaker than Ward.

Sutcliffe is not yet the finished article. As a half back he drifted out of games too often (to be expetced at his age). I actually think he looked very accomplished running lines where one might expect a centre to play.

I was just surprised, with Ward's lengthy injuries and Sutcliffe's form, that so many thought Ward should slot staright back in and found no place for Sutcliffe.

Still, finding room for them both is a decent problem to have, if McDemortt handles that prpoerly which is a whole different discussion.

Both players will be in the 17 as the season goes on IMO if they stay fit. Sutcliffe is the better playmaker IMO, and is more suited to playing at 6 or 13. I think Ward will end up in the back row and will make a terrific 2nd rower as he develops, the comparison to Greg Bird above is a good one I think, because that's how I see him too.

Is his frame built for that role?

I think he will eventually play 6.

Only issue I have is that up until his injury last season, his stats (and performances on the eye, stats to back it up) were matching that of Delaney. Delaney the same player that many were creaming at saying how good he was playing. It has already been mentioned by another poster the impact he had in the game at Catalans, which was the season before last. But you are using the word "glimpses" of looking a first team player?

As I said a couple of posts back, wasn't Ward the playmaker of the academy team before coming into first team, a team that Sutcliffe as part of? I think the comparison is unfair, as one is asked to do the dirty work highlighting other parts of his game, and not given the freedom to play a role showing his playmaking ability, where the other is given the oppossite role.

Assuming a fit again Ward, as you pointed out, he would certainly be much more important to our current squad IMO.