FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > Kallum Watkins |
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| Quote: Bullseye "That sounds sensible enough but has there really been a drop in the numbers of clubs getting into financial difficulties since the cap came in? I'm not sure of the difference it's made to be honest. On the field has it evened up the competition? Well pre SL there were usually 2 or 3 clubs fighting it out for trophies with one usually clearing up. The situation hasn't changed all that much since then.
Demanding mega bucks for star players is fair enough but some will just sign shorter contracts or ask for release clauses. You may hang onto a player who is desperate to leave, is that a good thing?'"
True hanging onto players who want to leave is a bad thing.
But we should be doing something to deter players from walking away and basically making their contracts not worth the paper they are printed on.
Whilst at a club that player should be giving his all for the team otherwise dock his wages.
If Watkins is contracted to Leeds until 2016 then we have to insist we get a sizeable cash return on our investment.
Not ideal but in the absence of anything else it is the least we can hope for.
On the other hand it might be all speculation.
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| If the game keeps cutting its cloth accordingly, there is a pretty good chance we will eventually run out of cloth to cut.
There seems to be an outlook within the game that spending less money means more profit, yet the situation is a lot more complicated than that
Salford are a pretty good example of that. How much would Salford need to spend on marketing to get the impact, the visibility, the positive momentum, the interest, they would get from signing SBW?
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438_1551258406.jpg "If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_438.jpg |
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| In order to keep players in the SL we need to be making it the place the want to be rather than the place the have to be.
Trouble is the game as a whole is short of the sort of money to compete with the NRL.
Would fans turn up to watch merged teams? If they wouldn't then they'd be even less viable than the current teams.
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[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: Bullseye "In order to keep players in the SL we need to be making it the place the want to be rather than the place the have to be.
Trouble is the game as a whole is short of the sort of money to compete with the NRL.
Would fans turn up to watch merged teams? If they wouldn't then they'd be even less viable than the current teams.'"
The problem is, for the large part they aren’t turning up to watch the none-merged teams either.
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| Let's just all hope Watkins, Hall, Vickery, Hardaker and Ward want to play their rugby in this country rather than on the opposite side of the world as that's about the only chance of it happening long-term.
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438_1551258406.jpg "If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_438.jpg |
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| I doubt that a merged Bradford/Halifax team would pull in crowds any greater than what we currently have at both clubs. In fact it'd probably pull in fewer as many disillusioned supporters would stay away. Would a combined Cas/Fev/Wakey team playing out of the new Wakey stadium really pull in a better gate than those three clubs currently do put together? There's a lot of tribalism amongst the fans of those clubs that won't just go away.
Quote: SmokeyTA "How much would Salford need to spend on marketing to get the impact, the visibility, the positive momentum, the interest, they would get from signing SBW?'"
Not sure what you're saying here? Are you asking how much £ they'd have to spend on marketing to attract enough income to re-coup the outlay on signing SBW?
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| Quote: Gotcha "Not if you reduce number of teams, and merge resources on some clubs by merging the clubs. Then you can increase the cap with a stronger competition.'"
And you're still reliant on Chairmen and Chief Execs being competent and sensible enough not to spend more than they can afford. Which was my original point.
Give them more to spend, all they'll spend it - probably by paying players more than they are worth.
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| Quote: craigizzard "It doesn't matter whether we'd get a "ton of money" for him or not if that money can't be spent on securing a replacement. It's not like the club need the money to stop going to the wall and it's not like there are any replacements of Watkins's quality or potential available to a Super League club anyway. Any cash received would be dead money.
And as for "freeing up a spot for Keinhorst", that's ridiculous. If whoever we're "freeing up a spot for" had the potential of Watkins (not that they do) then we'll have the same situation over again in 18 months, "freeing up a spot" for the next junior.
Very depressing for Super League if true.'"
No it isn't ridiculous at all IF Watkins goes then that leaves a space at RC in the 1st team does it not?
So as it's a straight forward situation should he leave the next in line at this moment in time is either Keinhorst or Minns both have potntial in their own right and having Watkins picked in front of them or even Ablett doesn't mean they aren't ever gonna be good enough.
Watkins as we all agree is a special talent but the other 2 lads could become good players in their own right.
If i personally had my own way then i'd have larger £££££ off the cap for homegrown lads i.e say 65/75k the if they make their international bow then up to 100k.
Yes that would mean more money spent on wages for the top clubs but that's the best way at this moment in time of keeping them here imo.
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| Bullseye re-Mergers.
I honestly don't think we'd have to go that far but ground-shares could prove to be more prudent to a few clubs.
Also the way the Championship is going at the top end then maybe a 2 tiered SL of 10 Clubs each with top and bottom swopping places then 2nd and 2nd bottom playing off in a home and away winner takes all.
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| All signs point to Super league now basically acting as a feeder league.
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[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: Bullseye "I doubt that a merged Bradford/Halifax team would pull in crowds any greater than what we currently have at both clubs. In fact it'd probably pull in fewer as many disillusioned supporters would stay away. Would a combined Cas/Fev/Wakey team playing out of the new Wakey stadium really pull in a better gate than those three clubs currently do put together? There's a lot of tribalism amongst the fans of those clubs that won't just go away.'"
Bradford/Halifax wouldn’t really make sense. Halifax aren’t really cannibalising Bradfords market, those two clubs aren’t (however much Fax fans hate it) competing with each other. The game has left Halifax behind.
Wakefield/Cas/Fev is a little different. They are in such close proximity, and Cas and Wakefield are competing with each other for fans. They have proved for about 40 years that the WMD cannot support 2 clubs challenging at the top end never mind three. They have a choice, either merge or slowly die. Two struggling clubs, possibly playing out of one stadium would just be stupid.
The ‘tribalism’ is a bit of a red-herring in my opinion. Its one of those things people would be passionately against until it had happened. If they did merge, within 5-10 years people wouldn’t even remember. Not to mention that Wakefield/Cas/Fev combined only attract about 15k regulars combined, there are 350k people in that district to go at.
Quote: Bullseye "Not sure what you're saying here? Are you asking how much £ they'd have to spend on marketing to attract enough income to re-coup the outlay on signing SBW?'" No, sorry, im looking at it from the other side. How much would Salford have to spend on marketing to get the same impact/benefit that they would from signing a true rugby superstar?
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| no matter what your job is if someone offers to double your wage and add a better working environment then you're bound to be tempted
i'd much rather see kallum go to the nrl than be poached by the union set up as at least then the national team might benefit
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| Quote: rhinoms "Bullseye re-Mergers.
I honestly don't think we'd have to go that far but ground-shares could prove to be more prudent to a few clubs.
Also the way the Championship is going at the top end then maybe a 2 tiered SL of 10 Clubs each with top and bottom swopping places then 2nd and 2nd bottom playing off in a home and away winner takes all.'"
Two 10 team divisions in SL would in effect just be a reduction of SL to 10 teams. SL 2 would be seen as Division 2 just like the championship is now. How would it increase clubs incomes? It's just re-arranging the deckchairs IMO.
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982.jpg [quote:1pqtnbtj]Every player in our squad could probably earn more money with another club. But they prefer to sacrifice a few extra quid in their back pocket to share special memories. And playing at a place like Old Trafford on a night like this makes it all worthwhile.[/quote:1pqtnbtj]
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| Next man up.
I view this as the NRL taking the place of Rugby Unions a few years ago, but better as the players are still available for international selection. Iestyn Harris, Henry Paul, Andy Farrell, Jason Robinson, Kyle Eastmond all left. They were replaced from within the game.
I'd love to continue to watch Watkins mature into the world class centre I hope he can be at leeds but fully understand if he went down under. There will be another Kallum Watkins, just as Kallum was another Chev Walker. Only, in Kallum's case his talents won't be wasted and his international league career won't stagnate.
The solution is, if a solution is needed, is not to allow irresponsible club chairmen to throw more money than they have into the pockets of a small pool of players. Do people not realise that Watkins was reared within a system operated by one of the most frugal chairmen in the game? Money is not the answer.
Nor is tinkering, yet again, with the number of clubs. Dropping a club or adding a club doesn't magically produce more players and coaches at grassroots level. It's cosmetic, nothing more.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Bradford/Halifax wouldn’t really make sense. Halifax aren’t really cannibalising Bradfords market, those two clubs aren’t (however much Fax fans hate it) competing with each other. The game has left Halifax behind.
Wakefield/Cas/Fev is a little different. They are in such close proximity, and Cas and Wakefield are competing with each other for fans. They have proved for about 40 years that the WMD cannot support 2 clubs challenging at the top end never mind three. They have a choice, either merge or slowly die. Two struggling clubs, possibly playing out of one stadium would just be stupid.
The ‘tribalism’ is a bit of a red-herring in my opinion. Its one of those things people would be passionately against until it had happened. If they did merge, within 5-10 years people wouldn’t even remember. Not to mention that Wakefield/Cas/Fev combined only attract about 15k regulars combined, there are 350k people in that district to go at.'"
Thing is you'd need plenty in the budget to launch a hybrid club in an area like Wakefield. If people would jump on the bandwagon after 5-10 years you'd still have a period when people stayed away out of principle. The danger is them losing interest altogether. To develop an all new fan base would take time and money. Where does the money come from? This is all assuming the hybrid club takes off. If it doesn't then where does that leave us? It seems a bit of a gamble.
Quote: SmokeyTA "No, sorry, im looking at it from the other side. How much would Salford have to spend on marketing to get the same impact/benefit that they would from signing a true rugby superstar?'"
The Bulls got a 3 fold increase in attendences at the beginning of SL from spending on marketing rather than just player recruitment. I guess it depends on how good your marketing is.
What we really need is an upturn in the economy over here. The knock on effect would solve a lot of problems in the game. Trouble is I can't see any sign of recovery anywhere.
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