Yeah, you obviously fail to read posts properly also.

Hardaker has nothing to do with Leeds youth. He was a transfer signing.

Keinhost is not a youngster, and is every bit the example I gave about over 21.

Hood did not make his debut at the age I put in the post.

Ward is the exeption. And thank you for brigning that up, as it backs up my point exactly regarding giving players their head early.

But all were outside the 20 that you say our coach with no balls is desperate to protect and all were given a shot. Age is irrelevant, it's at what stage the player is at in their development that's important, otherwise you cast aside potential stars like Jamie Peacock simply because they're not quite ready at 17/18.

I think this is correct and can be illustrated by looking at a list of those ex-Academy players at Leeds who have debuted during the SL Era when nearer to 20 (or above) than 19.

Dave Wrench, Andy Speak, Jonny Hepworth, Luke Burgess, Scott Murrell, Ben Jones-Bishop, Jordan Tansey, Joe Chandler, Michael Haley, Dane Manning, Tom Bush, Chris Clarkson, George Elliott, Liam Hood and Jimmy Keinhorst.

That's not to say every player who was introduced at 19 or below made it either but the success rate goes up.

Its a sensible system given financial constraints across the league, and is quite similar to that here in Queensland where the Queensland Cup fills in for reserve grade. Gotcha and tvoc are right about players being more likely to 'make it' if they get a shot before they turn 20, possibly apart from props. There's no point running pseudo reserve grade sides - better go with the youth competition and loan out anyone too old.

I also remember watching the old A Team, where to be frank the standard was poor and the competition was filled with players who were never going to make first grade on a regular basis but were probably happy making the odd appearance here and there.

If SL clubs had the money the reserve teams would be a nice to have, but they were never much more than a place for senior players to get a bit of match fitness and to have a look at young prospects at open age. The standard was so poor though that it could be misleading as there were some kids who looked fantastic in that competition who were in fact duds (I remember Gareth Stephens and Francis Maloney looked potentially great as a halfback pairing when they first hit the A team).

BTW Hetherington's comments would suggest that some of the names being bandied around - Walmsley and Taylor for example - are not on his radar as he's supposedly only going for players who would walk into the first 17.

walmsley has signed for saints by all accounts.

taylor would walk straight into our first team.

Would he? I don't think you can say hand on heart he'd be automatically picked every week ahead of anyone else we have right now, average as they are. If GH lives up to his word he's not interested in another 'project' forward - the last thing our squad needs is another Moore/Hauraki.

Personally I'm not expecting another big name forward signing - that will probably have to wait until after next season unless one of Peacock/Leuluai change their retirement plans.

Perhaps the biggest indictment of GH's recent recruitment is to have a look at the forwards signed in the last two years - Cross, Hauraki, Griffin, Lunt and Moore. With the best will in the world that's the definition of poor-to-average SL players.

Name them Nantwich.

Who are these talented youngsters Leeds have lost in the last five years and who would they be replacing in the current Leeds side?

I'm betting you'll come up with less than two, and that one will be borderline.

The issue for me, isn't who we let go have they gone on to prove wrong. You need to look beyond that.

The issue is how much better could some of these players have been had they been given an opportunity earlier, rather than their development regressing playing in a very poor competition in the under 20's.

This is why I like the new structure, because you need to give someone a shot if you think they have it, before they get past 19, otherwise clubs are definately taking more of a gamble by releasing without knowing.

I repeat what I put earlier, there is not many star players over the years who have made there debuts beyond 21. The best players around make their debuts at 16-18. Have Leeds followed that pattern over the last few years, which is exactly the formula they used a decade ago?

Gotcha, I agree with you in that I'd like to see players debut as early as is feasible.

However, I don't think you can reasonably expect the club to have followed exactly the formula that brought success ten years ago. Back then, we'd won nowt (barring a single CC in 1999) in a generation. More recently we've enjoyed the most successful Leeds team of all time. I think it's unrealistic to have expected young players to have forced a way into that team at the same rate that they did a decade ago. Very recently maybe, but not over most of the past decade.

Confirmed this morning.Leeds seem to have a problem in recruiting players at the moment.