Don't be so childish.

Contact is part of the game. You know that's not the point im making.

What I object to is violence outside of the rule book. That is what I class as 'violence'.

The problem with RL as a whole is closely linked to an issue like this. The sport needs to fit the needs of the modern sporting era. This is a time when sports that by their nature are violent, ie boxing come under public scrutiny, so a sport like RL where a large number of fans still embrace violence beyond the rules is in danger of being seen as outdated.

I remember Andy Dannant (spelling) breaking Hanleys jaw with an off the ball high elbow. Did you like that? Make you feel like you'd seen a good game? Maybe its people like you who would be more suited to watching the round ball.

Yes, and that contact is often violent.


Whether you object to it or not, when you have highly charged, highly athletic, very determined men who's objective is to win participating in violent contact regularly in a short period of time it is naturally going to lead to occasional outbreaks of "violence". So long as it is occasional and within reason I don't see it as a problem in the professional game.


I agree that RL does not currently fit the needs of the modern sporting era. But I don't believe that it is due to excessive violence in the professional game. In fact violence is quite rare on a professional rugbg league pitch these days. Pro RL has far bigger modernising worries such as stadium facilities, PR and modern business models.
Also to compare pro RL to boxing is a silly comparison in this context. To compete in a boxing match means the boxer MUST commit violence. That is not the case in rugby league where any violence is a by-product of the aggressive nature of the sport and not the only way of participating in that sport.


Did you even read my post? Where I specifically stated I wasn't talking about such incidents? I'll assume you didn't and direct you to your own advice

This is true and the main instigator of unnecessary violence within the junior amateur game are parents and parent-coaches - ask any follower of any age group in any district league and they will name at least one team at their level who they dread playing, not just their offspring on the pitch but the parents who follow their team who seemingly have no concept of acceptable behaviour when out and about in public - sending your 10 year old out onto a pitch and then shouting obscene language all through the game to encourage him to injure another kid and applauding when he does is not acceptable in anyone's books and if it ever becomes more common than it already is then the game will die on its a[irs[/ie from the roots upwards within ten years, if not sooner.

My lad played under 8s in Wigan for our local team and 2 very well known teams were horrible. Kids ran in with elbows up and pushed kids faces down in the mud after a tackle at 7 and 8 years old. One of the teams, on the outskirts of Wigan, even had a parent drinking a can of lager at 10.30 on Sunday morning. My lad now plays football.

I was once told by an ex RL pro that RL has a high proportion of horrible people involved compared to RU.

Spot on. RL at amateur level is a disgrace and is,IMO, probably the main factor holding the game back in the heartlands.

Yep, sadly I'm not surprised by your lads' experience. The amount of kids who drop out of RL and turn to Union or football must be huge. Although I'd imagine football can't claim to be squeaky clean on that front either.
The sad thing is I think the problem is in the heartlands of RL. 99 times out of 100 whenever I watch a heartlands amateur game I despair for the future of RL because of the so needlessly aggressive and intimidating atmosphere at heartland games. With players of other age groups drinking and shouting abuse on the sidelines, parents shouting and swearing, girlfriends/wives drinking and swearing, coaches swearing and shouting abuse at referees and the opposition and players deliberately attempting to hurt the opposition with needless high tackles and fights.
My brother started playing occasional games for Nottingham Outlaws recently, only in their 2nd or 3rd team mind, but the difference in atmosphere and attitude was huge. It almost tempted me to try and get fit to start playing again.

Do you have a multiple personality disorder?



Im not saying amateur and pro are the same but pro is the highest standard. If violence is seen as acceptable there what do you think amateurs are going to do? And if its acceptable to pros who are idols of kids, what do you expect kids are going to want to do?

Why is it that so many in RL are so short sighted. Look at the big picture.

Ok, so I admit, I like to see Bailey standing his ground, and yes, when Burrow was swinging at that big Hull South Sea Islander I laughed. But the question here isn't 'do you understand why emotions run high at the top level?' The question is 'Is violence an acceptable part of Rugby League?' The only answer is no. Violence in any sport, indeed in any walk of life is unacceptable. If you try and defend any other answer then quite frankly I dont see how you can call yourself a fan. You're a thug.

I liken it to the difference between MacDonalds and Burger King. The product is much much better at Burger King, but MacDonalds has the upper hand in the exposure stakes due to superior image control.

Rugby Union is a warm, friendly and comfortable place to take kids. The game is full of networking opportunities. People look after their own and the governing body SHOWERS the junior wings with money, support, technical assistance and anything that you need, someone will aid you in obtaining.

Rugby League has the better product, but in my experience, is played in cold, hostile, run down working mens clubs. Nobody gives two hoots about anybody but themselves and the governing body is not interested. Rugby League devotees fight like salmon against a flow of ignorance, apathy and downright ineptitude to try and raise money for kits, lights, well anything really.

If ever the Outlaws needed a testament to what they try to do. That is it.
Leicester Rhino. Take a bow.

No.

Rugby league is a tough physical game, so tempers will always spill over occasionally and that's part and parcel of the game.

But theres a difference between the ooccasional flair up, and deliberate violence, which someone alluded happens in alot of the amateur games.

The example that I quoted a couple of pages back happened to what is arguably the best equipped, most modern in terms of infrastructure and facilities, amateur rugby league club in the City of Leeds, think of a club that in recent years has had a six figure sum spent on its new clubhouse and you've guessed it.

It was they who lost two of their u10s to a local RU club and it wasn't their fault, it was those kids experiences when playing against visiting teams, they lost two members but several more have been for training sessions at the local RU club and are yet to decide which one they prefer.

At u10 in rugby union they are playing full contact and getting involved in rucking and mauling so its as physical as rugby league is at that age, the difference is in the discipline, on and off field - thats not to say that flare-ups don't happen but they are not encouraged from the sidelines and they are penalised very quickly, there is a discipline in the game at that age that is coached in training and is tangible from the touchline - it helps an awful lot in controlling the parents who follow the kids game, its not a posh kids game and parents don't turn up in Range Rovers, its as working class as RL is - the difference is the discipline.

Why would you think that? I expressed different opinions on different aspects of the game that have different characteristics and different goals. Why is that so hard for you to understand?


So why do you insist I should have the same opinion of both?


I never said that violence should go unpunished, nor do I think excessive violence is acceptable but the odd punch up in an important game is not a major issue in my opinion. I've been coaching kids for 10 years now. I honestly can't think of one who has punched someone because they've seen a pro player do it. I know of kids and kids teams who are aggressive and start fights and commit high tackles, but from my experience that is due to the existing atmosphere and culture at that club or from their coach/parents. It is up to coaches and clubs to ensure that their players behave properly.
Also the violence at amateur games is far in excess of that at pro level, so how is that the amateur game mirroring the pro game? I'm also struggling to think of the last proper punch up or "violence" in a SL game. It is a rare thing nowadays and violence at pro level had been reducing for years, yet we've seen no commensurate decrease in violence at amateur level.

The sad fact of the matter is that the violence at amateur level has nothing to do with the pro game and had everything to do with the people who are involved with running the game, coaching the game, watching the game, and club & league officials at amateur level.


Why is it that you feel the need to belittle other people. I direct you once again to your own advice


So you admitted you enjoyed it, and then have the nerve to call me a thug without having ever met me. Since you are incapable of actually debating points and merely resort to abuse at each turn I would suggest it's you who is coming across as the more arrogant. I can and will defend the odd flash of occasional violence within reason for the reasons I gave on a previous post. I've said it should be punished, but punished reasonably and taking mitigating circumstances into account. If you don't understand why some violence then you can't decide whether it's acceptable or not.

Yep, spot on in my view.

Yep! And it takes a lot for me to actively consider taking part in physical activity!

Because you say that RL at amateur level is a disgrace, but then condone violence at pro level. Violence has no place in the game at all. The level is irrelevant. If I punch a scally in the street and then punch some 'posh' bloke in a suit is only one of those acts of violence considered unacceptable? Of course not. Violence is not acceptable at any level.



What do you class as excessive though? If I got punched in a game Id think that was pretty excessive but I suspect that if Barrie Mac for example got punched he may consider it just an opening foray into the game. Either way, the punch is unecessary and unacceptable.



Ive never said mirroring. My point is that if violence is deemed acceptable at pro level then surely you would expect amateur and more importantly and dangerously, kids to also follow suit as the argument just says 'if they can we can'. Stamp it out at the top and work down. I would agree that the real hardcore violence that has perhaps been seen in the past is in the main stuck their, and thats a great thing. But again, that wasnt the question.