FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > Centres for Wembley |
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| Hardakre would repeatedly get pushed aside by Carmont/Tomkins. I'd go for Smith and Delaney.
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| Quote: RhinoNeil "Hardakre would repeatedly get pushed aside by Carmont/Tomkins. I'd go for Smith and Delaney.'"
Playing devils advocate to a point here but ....
Whilst I agree Hardaker is still a bit light, his pace could cause real problems and his hands arent bad either.
Some good, some bad with a big call like this.
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| I think that one of Ablett or Watkins will pull through and start at Wembley, probably the former. In that case, I'd move Delaney to centre. Smith might be more of an attacking threat but he's not had a consistent run in the first team. Also, there are worse things that could happen than us having Delaney defending against Carmont instead of Watkins.
If Ablett and Watkins are both ruled out then our backline will need to be selloptaped together. I've never been one for experimenting in big games so I suppose we'd have to run with Webb/BJB/Delaney/Smith/Hall.
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| Those suggesting Smith to left centre... Are you really suggesting he would perform any better than Hardaker when up against J. Tomkins ? You need a big daft lad to do that... So Delaney it is then at left centre. Unless of course Senior makes a surprise top secret recovery.
If Watkins doesn't make it I would rather Hardaker partners BJB on the right... Not sure who would be better at centre to the other playing wing.... B U T def Hardaker over Smith for me please.
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| Quote: nantwichexile "Those suggesting Smith to left centre... Are you really suggesting he would perform any better than Hardaker when up against J. Tomkins ? You need a big daft lad to do that... So Delaney it is then at left centre. Unless of course Senior makes a surprise top secret recovery.
If Watkins doesn't make it I would rather Hardaker partners BJB on the right... Not sure who would be better at centre to the other playing wing.... B U T def Hardaker over Smith for me please.'"
The biggest problem with that is neither Hardaker nor BJB have, to my knowldge at least, played centre at this level.
Wembley is not the place to hand them such a positional debut.
I know you have it in for Smith but at least he has experience of playing centre. Let's not forget he wore the no. 3 shirt all 2009 and ended up playing there for England that year. Surely that has to be better than throwing Hardaker or BJB in at the deep end?
EDIT: I'm not suggesting that Smith is the Messiah and I know he is out of form. However he is a utility back for a reason, that reason being he is competent at this level across the entire threequarter line, including centre.
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| Kirkstaller BjB played a few games at Centre for Quinns when the selected Melling at FB.
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| Quote: kirkstaller "The biggest problem with that is neither Hardaker nor BJB have, to my knowldge at least, played centre at this level.
Wembley is not the place to hand them such a positional debut.
I know you have it in for Smith but at least he has experience of playing centre. Let's not forget he wore the no. 3 shirt all 2009 and ended up playing there for England that year. Surely that has to be better than throwing Hardaker or BJB in at the deep end?
EDIT
Don't know where you get the idea I "have it in" for Smith... If you read other posts you will see I would rather Smith be retained and Webb released.
My point here is that I would not put him at left centre against Wigan's big daft right centre ( remember how easily he swatted off McGuire recently ). Right centre maybe ... But then I think will he perform any better and does he deserve a place more than Hardaker ? I really do think Hardaker has more than proven he can handle the pressures of SL. His composure is first rate. Admittedly Wembley is a big step up again, but I believe he will rise to the challenge and be a match winner.... Probably on right wing with BJB inside him....but equally I would be comfortable with him at RC and BJB kept on the wing.
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| Quote: RhinoNeil "Hardakre would repeatedly get pushed aside by Carmont/Tomkins. I'd go for Smith and Delaney.'"
I think you are wrong - Hardaker has shown himself to be a solid defender when he has played in the first team - Carmont might have too much experience/know how, Tomkins will not run over him that is for sure.
On the other side he might actually be too quick for Carmont and too bright for Tomkins. I would have no hesitation in playing him, he is playing centre in the academy now.
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| Quote: nantwichexile "Don't know where you get the idea I "have it in" for Smith... If you read other posts you will see I would rather Smith be retained and Webb released.
My point here is that I would not put him at left centre against Wigan's big daft right centre ( remember how easily he swatted off McGuire recently ). Right centre maybe ... But then I think will he perform any better and does he deserve a place more than Hardaker ? I really do think Hardaker has more than proven he can handle the pressures of SL. His composure is first rate. Admittedly Wembley is a big step up again, but I believe he will rise to the challenge and be a match winner.... Probably on right wing with BJB inside him.'"
Smith is, in all fairness, much stronger in defence than MCGuire. I wouldn't worry about him physically up against J. Tomkins, who at least is less likely to burn him for pace.
For once, however, I think I'd go with your option if we need to and pair BJB and Hardaker. It would be the high risk option, but I'm not sure what we have to lose.
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| Quote: nantwichexile "Don't know where you get the idea I "have it in" for Smith... If you read other posts you will see I would rather Smith be retained and Webb released.
My point here is that I would not put him at left centre against Wigan's big daft right centre ( remember how easily he swatted of McGuire recently ). Right centre maybe ... But then I think will he perform any better and does he deserve a place more than Hardaker ? I really do think Hardaker has more than proven he can handle the pressures of SL. His composure is first rate. Admittedly Wembley is a big step up again, but I believe he will rise to the challenge and be a match winner.... Probably on right wing with BJB inside him.'"
I agree that Smith should only be considered for the right centre position. This makes a lot of sense after all as he has played on that side for most of his career. The big question I guess is just how effective could Delaney be on the left?
I've seen nothing from Hardaker to suggest that he is a centre. Winger, full back, stand-off - maybe, but not a centre.
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| Just FYI folks, centres very rarely defend against their opposite number these days. Most teams defend their halfbacks one in from the wing.
So if Leeds go with McGuire and Burrow from the start, they'll be defending against Tomkins and Carmont respectively. Cause for optimism there - no, really...
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "Just FYI folks, centres very rarely defend against their opposite number these days. Most teams defend their halfbacks one in from the wing.
So if Leeds go with McGuire and Burrow from the start, they'll be defending against Tomkins and Carmont respectively. Cause for optimism there - no, really...'"
Id back Burrow against anybody when it comes to tackling. Mags still has a habit of sliding off it, a bit like Jessica Simpson in the Dukes of Hazard doing her washing the car routine.
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| I would seriously consider finding a way to put Burrow on S. Tomkins watch. He has enough foot speed and tackling technique to keep the shackles on him. The trouble is, because Tomkins joins the attack from full back, it's a bit hard to predict where he'll pop up... I have an impression that he has a particular liking for getting outside a defender on Wigan's right, I haven't studied enough footage to know whether that's a correct impression.
I think it's wrong to say that if you stop Tomkins you stop Wigan. It would help though.
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| I think Zak is well equipped to deal with anything thrown at him in the centres. He is a good defender and has shown composure at SL level. Plus he has pace to burn. He is gathering experience there in Academy. Admittedly it is risky chucking him in at Wembley, but he has never looked like the deer in headlights in the past.
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| Is Watkin's very doubtful for Saturday? I won't try to pick centres if both Ablett and Watkin's are out because McDermott will pick the total opposite. I think Leeds need to avoid kicking to Tomkin's and if they do, then he needs to be hit as soon as he catches the ball. Tomkin's chimes into the line often as third receiver, normally through behind balls. Leeds need to utilise an umbrella D in my opinion. To force them down the middle as Carmont is also a large threat.
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