Is the 'since 2008' to be taken as including any part of or excluding all of that particular year/season?

In the meantime here are the Leeds Academy products to have debuted in the SL 1st grade: (In debut date order)

2008: Luke Burgess, Ben Kaye, Danny Allan, Ben Jones-Bishop, Kallum Watkins, Joe Chandler, Michael Haley

2009: Paul McShane, Dane Manning

2010: Tom Bush, Chris Clarkson

2011: Brad Singleton, George Elliott

Leeds' other debutees over the same period:

Simon Worrall, Eric Anselme, Danny Buderus, Jay Pitts, Brett Delaney, Greg Eastwood, Michael Coady, Kyle Amor, Luke Ambler, Ben Cross, Weller Hauraki and Zak Hardaker.

If either of them get smashed by him they should probably pack it in now. Hes dreadful, an absolute knock on machine who gives away three dumb penalities a game. Know a few wakey fans and he is just a laughing stock basically.

Amor has been playing well in the a shocking side this year if his confidence isnt affected by getting stuffed by 50 every week i doubt he will get too down on himself if he has a bad game.

He is also a beast of a man. And props need to be beasts. Last thing Leeds need is another prop with the beast knocked out of him.

I can assure you the current crop of Wakey youngsters do not think him a joke at all. They see him as a unit who trucks it in like a trojan. Have you ever seen him cut his stride before contact?

Fair play I see your point, no the one thing he has got is guts and he he was good for them in his first stint but in the last few years he has turned into the type of player that shows hw much strength the super league is lacking.

Thanks for that Tvoc I should have engaged the brain before posting that I watch the under 20s quite alot and have seen all the lads listed play lots of times

To be fair, the list appears to show how little quantity (and arguably quality) has filtered through to the 1st grade side over recent years at Leeds.

point well highlighted tvoc. I think the quality of the first team has to be factored. It's easier to add and evaluate youth into a first team consistently performing well and providing that stable winning environment. First team deficiencies would add more pressure to the youth as well as the coach. Was Clarkson given the nod on form was it first team injuries that gave him his chance?

After you factor that it you're part way to answering the change in ethos/lack of reserve quality question.

....that is what disappoints me most this season in particular. The club seems to be stuck in a time warp of preferring to sign or re-sign ageing has beens.

and never was going to be's